| Subject: Imagining |
Author:
Damoclese
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Date Posted: 05/ 4/04 9:43am
In reply to:
Wade A. Tisthammer
's message, "Beware the fallacy of equivocation." on 05/ 2/04 3:20pm
>
>That is illogical. A sea of energy is not the
>complete absence of everything, for it does not
>contain the absence of a sea of energy, physical laws
>etc.
The complete absence of everything is not nothing either I'd like to point out, because "the absence of everything" is in and of itself a something. Hence, I don't see my definition as being any more illogical than yours, and in fact, as my definition is accepted by science and has been shown to be practicable, I find my definition more useful.
>
>My point is this: if you redefine the word
>"nothing" to mean a seething froth of wormholes, black
>holes, and fluctuating energy states, then yes
>something can come from nothing.
If you define it to be the absence of everything you can also get things, namely something, but if you need a better example, I'd look at set theory and the derivation of all natural mathematical numbers from the null set.
But to say that this
>violates the belief of theists like myself in ex
>nihilo nihil fit would be making the fallacy of
>equivocation, since that is not what they mean by
>"nothing." In the context I am using it (especially
>in ex nihilo nihil fit) nothingness is a
>complete absence of anything, including tiny
>wormholes, black holes, fluctuating energy etc.
So if you were to group all of your "nothing" together, it would be the null set which in turn can be used to get every natural number that you are desirious of obtaining.
Would you care to quarrel with THAT example of something coming from nothing?
If not, then it isn't hard to believe that in a real realm where the analogy of the null set is quantum fluctuations with an average of zero provides something coming from nothing, as an even more "pure mathematical nothing" allows the same exact thing.
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