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Congratulations to the newest members of the Miss America Class of 2015:
Miss Alabama Caitlin Brunell
Miss Hawaii Stephanie Steuri
Miss North Dakota Jacky Arness
Miss Nebraska Megan Swanson
Miss Kansas Amanda Sasek
Miss Missouri Jessica Hartman
Miss Oklahoma Alex Eppler

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Thank you to the moderator of the New England board for the links to all the other boards.
NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS:
Problems? Contact the moderator at maoforummoderator@gmail.com

Subject: Holding Titles in more than one system
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 07:28:07 07/15/14 Tue On the TX message board, someone named BryBoy522 has posted that the Miss TX board gave Miss Dallas the approval of competing at Miss TX even though when she was crowned she held an international title in another system. This is against the contract that Miss America mandates. Can a state organization overrule the national office? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Replies:
It probably depends on the title, whether or not their national competition has already been held, etc. There is also something called "state's rights" which seems to be a catch-all to allow certain states to do whatever they want to do. (NT) -- No name, 07:52:33 07/15/14 Tue Not if she had competed her final competition in the other system before she won. You just can't say win Texas OLM or whatever, then win Miss Dallas, and then go to OLM nationals. (NT) -- pretty simple, 08:36:01 07/15/14 Tue Compeletely false. A state OT had her title removed weeks before giving it up when she entered a local in another system. MAO does not allow you to hold two titles at once IN ANY SYSTEM at ANY TIME (if one is an MAO title) (NT) -- No name, 12:54:06 07/15/14 Tue But in the past, there have been many exceptions made for girls with Cinderella titles (NT) -- No name, 13:42:37 07/15/14 Tue Yes because she entered the other system AFTER she had won her state title. The girls in Cinderella have held their titles BEFORE winning their MAO title. (NT) -- No name, 09:53:59 07/16/14 Wed I don't see how anyone including a state board can override the contract for the entire organization. State rights rules need to be really spelled out as to what those entail. (NT) -- No name, 13:45:16 07/15/14 Tue I'm starting to think the rules are subjective... Seems in texas it's who you are, and who you know. Forget different days, different judges. It's more like different girls, different rules... Or so it seems... (NT) -- Long time Texas fan..., 17:50:19 07/15/14 Tue Ashley Anderson is competing in Las Vegas at Cinderella Internationals. I think that makes 2-3 TX titleholders that will compete in Vegas! (NT) -- No name, 19:29:28 07/15/14 Tue Who else is there? (NT) -- No name, 19:42:11 07/15/14 Tue File a complaint with MAO. Screen shot any proof on the Cinderalla website. Fb. Instagram. Twitter. To back up proof. FYI she may be going "at large" without having procured at title? (NT) -- No name, 05:37:07 07/16/14 Wed Ashley isn't a current titleholder. tailor and Mackenzie teen are. Larissa was Shen she won her mto prelim. At this point I doubt Mao really cares enough to do something about it, not that they would anyway. (NT) -- No name, 09:10:29 07/16/14 Wed Isn't Ashley a MTO local titleholder? She is competing for another system next week in Las Vegas according to their facebook posts. (NT) -- No name, 20:10:45 07/16/14 Wed Teen rules are different than miss and MAO does not care about them having another title after state is over. Been there seen and done that. Miss totally different ballgame. (NT) -- Neighbor who has no dog in this game., 04:36:04 07/17/14 Thu At midnight of the finals, all contracts with local TEXAS TITLEHOLDERS become null and void. Thus allowing anyone to compete elsewhere. Also, Anderson didn't win a title to qualify for Intl Cindy. She is a former top 5 at internationals, and their rules allow them to compete without winning a title. And she is competing in the Intl Women category, while is an open contest without having to hold a previous title. So she isn't "violating" rule as others were. (NT) -- No name, 22:41:04 07/18/14 Fri Does any other state allow this? Or just TX? (NT) -- No name, 09:09:32 07/16/14 Wed Someone on the TX message board just made it official that Josh Hammers was an ex of a local TX ED and was still allowed to serve on the Miss TX panel. (NT) -- No name, 09:22:27 07/16/14 Wed You might want to explain to the rest of us what this has to do with anything? He was the ex of a local ED and he was a judge. So what? (NT) -- No name, 15:39:13 07/16/14 Wed They are saying he is the ex of the local director who's titleholder won the state title. Thus saying a conflict of interest and shouldn't have been on the state judging panel to begin with. (NT) -- No name, 22:42:53 07/18/14 Fri Taylor Tyson, who just competed at Miss Florida as Miss Kendall, and has been the Cinderlla Int'l teen and other titles is also competing at Cinderella Women Internationals. Can she no longer hold her local title? (NT) -- No name, 11:41:56 07/22/14 Tue It is my understanding that snce the Miss Florida pageant already took Place, Taylor is eligible to compete at Cinderella Interanationals. This is why she did not compete at Florida Cinderella. (NT) -- No name, 12:17:15 07/22/14 Tue She never competes at Cinderella Florida state. Once you win the Intwrnational pageant you are welcome back to compete forever (until you age out). (NT) -- She won Internationals when she was 8 or 9 so she's been bypassing the state pageant ever since, 16:42:53 07/22/14 Tue If MAO finds out about what MTO is doing, heads are going roll. (NT) -- No name, 13:32:54 07/16/14 Wed MG, please stop. Your girl didn't win. She was lovely, and is a wonderful girl, and is too classy for you to keep stirring up trouble. (NT) -- No name, 16:05:40 07/16/14 Wed Miss Dallas won the Cinderella Teen title last year. She wasn't able to compete in Teen or Miss in MAOT/MAO because of when her 17th birthday fell. Miss Dallas will be passing on her Cinderella International title this month at their international pageant. (NT) -- No name, 14:05:04 07/17/14 Thu Click in for clarification -- No name, 23:43:36 07/20/14 Sun Do all of these pageants have non-competes? (NT) -- No name, 23:55:29 07/20/14 Sun There are two pageants listed here, MAO and Cinderella. Cinderella on the state level in Texas has a no compete clause unless it is a MAO/MUO pageant, as they consider themselves a feeder program for those systems. Not sure what the rules are for MAO or Cinderella Internationals. (NT) -- No name, 23:59:55 07/20/14 Sun Thanks for clarifying. I figure regs can differ between state and international levels. (NT) -- No name, 00:07:55 07/21/14 Mon YW (NT) -- No name, 21:43:13 07/21/14 Mon MTO only gave this girl clearance after other EDs made a stink about it. They went against MAO rules and the contract Miss Dallas signed last November. MAO is going to investigate it and I bet Dallas is stripped of her title and all her prize winnings. After what happened in FL, DE, CO and now NV, MAO is going to show everyone that they are against cheats. (NT) -- No name, 14:27:48 07/22/14 Tue Actually....one of the Dallas directors judged Nevada! Lol (NT) -- No name, 15:32:13 07/22/14 Tue Fl and NV have local title holders (that placed at state) competing at Cinderella Internationals in Vegas this week too (NT) -- It's not just a Texas thing, 16:39:47 07/22/14 Tue It's not against the rules after you have competed at state. (NT) -- No name, 17:51:25 07/22/14 Tue She w on the title when she was ineligible to compete for MAO AND MAOT. (NT) -- No name, 23:56:33 07/22/14 Tue Look... If you are that upset about it go and compete at Cinderella int'ls and win a title yourself in both systems. (NT) -- No name, 07:10:56 07/23/14 Wed I love the Dallas directors were also mixed up in the NVOT scandal. He sure gets around! (NT) -- No name, 12:15:26 07/23/14 Wed It doesn't sound like the judges did anything wrong except question how certain girls didnt make top 5. (NT) -- No name, 12:21:44 07/23/14 Wed Miss Harris County OT Mackenzie Earls won the International Teen Title at Cinderlla today (NT) -- Crowned by Laryssa Bonacquisti, Miss Dallas, 19:51:15 07/25/14 Fri

Subject: Miss Nevada investgation
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 14:15:46 07/24/14 Thu Finally!!! There is another news source reporting on this so important story. If you google Vegasinc you will find the article about the two teens competing in the MNOT and about how haileyanne was indeed leading the scoring in the competition. It's amazing to me that they don't even mention the name Hailey at all....yet we all know who their talking about. Unbelievable what's going on here. Truth is getting out there!!! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Replies:
If I were the lawyer representing the girl who actually won the pageant i would demand that the other "winner" (Amy) not be accepted as a contestant. The top five pageant night was fraudulent therefore the selection of her as the winner was also void. The only winner is the girl selected once the actual and legitimate top five was presented. (NT) -- No name, 09:12:10 07/25/14 Fri That's not entirely true. Judging a pageant two months after the fact isn't an accurate assessment of how the judges were feeling that night. Of course they're going to reevaluate differently two months later when they've had time to let the pageant sink in and listen to the controversy being stirred for at least one month. That's human nature and entirely unfair to the original winner. (NT) -- No name, 19:32:41 07/25/14 Fri Unfair to all the girls, frankly. If the correct top 5 had been named that night, any one of the 5 could have won the pageant. This system doesn't operate on points once the top 5 are chosen. It's anyone's game. Who knows if Haleyann or Amy would have been chosen? It could have been some other girl. The only way to fairly resolve this is to allow the top 5 to re-compete. It's really unfortunate that nationals had to happen just after all this came to light (NT) -- No name, 19:51:04 07/25/14 Fri

Subject: Another article
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 04:01:08 07/25/14 Fri By MIKE WEATHERFORD LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL They crowned the wrong teen queen. Now two Nevada girls may be headed to Miss America�s Outstanding Teen Pageant in Orlando, Fla. After parents of other contestants challenged the results and pushed for an audit, national pageant officials agreed there were �scoring irregularities� in the June 1 state competition that crowned 15-year-old Amy Smith of Henderson as Miss Nevada�s Outstanding Teen. Contestants including Smith begin gathering in Orlando Friday for the contest that culminates Aug. 2. A news release attributed to Donna Bozarth, chairman of the pageant�s national board, said the �unfortunate situation� has resulted in the decision that �there could be two winners,� and that �each of them individually would receive the recognition and awards for being Miss Nevada�s Outstanding Teen and would compete separately in the national competition in Orlando.� However, the rightful winner � said to be Haleyann Hart of Henderson � was not named in the release, and only Smith and her family had agreed to the proposal on Thursday. �An agreement has not yet been reached with the other young lady, but we are hopeful that a resolution can be reached so that she can participate in the national competition and represent the state of Nevada as well,� the statement continued. Hart�s mother, Marcia Cope-Hart, said Thursday she could not comment on the situation. Amy�s father, Rick Smith, was traveling to Orlando on Thursday but emailed a statement to the Review-Journal. �Amy was crowned Miss Nevada�s Outstanding Teen on June 1. Since that time she has continued uninterrupted in that capacity and will represent the State in the national (pageant). Other questions are beyond me, and would need to be directed to national organization.� Amy Hacker, state executive director of the Miss Nevada Organization, could not be reached for comment Thursday. The state competition already was newsworthy for the rarity of having two sisters win twin titles. Ellie Smith, a previous Miss Nevada Outstanding Teen, was crowned Miss Nevada in the competition for ages 17 through 24 and will go on to compete in the Miss America pageant. The sisters live in Henderson but traveled to Elko to compete in a less-crowded preliminary, the Miss Northeast Nevada Contest. When Amy Smith also won the state finals competition held at the Las Vegas Academy, parents and other pageant officials challenged the results based on several factors. Primarily, Hart was the announced winner of the teen talent award, so the proportionate percentage of scoring for that award should automatically have placed her among the five top finalists. Instead, the five finalists excluded Hart and included three 13-year-old first-year contestants, which parents cited as another red flag. After the contest, it was determined that Hart won the interview portion of the competition as well. In a July 17 letter obtained by the Review-Journal, Bozarth told parents: �I have spoken to most of you in the past 2 days with the news that there was a scoring error due to an incorrect ballot being used in the Scholastic Achievement portion of the competition. When our national auditor in Orlando reviewed the ballots for a re-audit of the scores, he immediately noticed the error because the scores were so inflated. �Our auditor, using the original ballots, re-entered the Private Interview, Lifestyle and Fitness in Sportswear, Talent, and Evening Wear & Onstage Question on to the tally sheet. He then entered the correct Scholastic Achievement Scores, which resulted in a different top 5.� Contact reporter Mike Weatherford at mweatherford@reviewjournal.com or 702-383-0288. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Replies:
I feel so badly for Haleyann. :( (NT) -- No name, 04:27:54 07/25/14 Fri I feel bad for both Hayleyann and Amy (NT) -- No name, 04:55:34 07/25/14 Fri How is it possible that the talent winner AND interview winner is excluded from the Top 5? (NT) -- No name, 07:09:03 07/25/14 Fri It is possible becuase it was fixed. (NT) -- No name, 07:59:26 07/25/14 Fri How dumb can they be? (NT) -- No name, 10:06:41 07/25/14 Fri Pretty Dumb (NT) -- No name, 18:39:40 07/25/14 Fri

Subject: A message to all
Author: Moderator [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 03:54:09 07/24/14 Thu I've been trying to decide what to do about allowing the posts about NV on the board without anything official being sent out. I decided to give a lot of leeway, but someone is now taking it too far. I will allow discussion about this. I will not allow this board to be used to shame a teenager into giving up her crown when it appears she has a legal right to keep it. This is for the lawyers to fight, not someone on a crusade. And I say someone because 95% of the things said about this girl and her family is coming from one poster. You can discuss it, but leave the teens alone. Moderator [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Replies:
I deleted a number of posts aimed at the teen in question (NT) -- Moderator, 03:55:03 07/24/14 Thu Let me be clear -- whoever makes any more posts shaming either Ellie or Amy will be banned. If you can't discuss the issue without hateful comments about teenagers, you shouldn't be posting to begin with (NT) -- Moderator, 05:02:23 07/24/14 Thu Thank you. I certainly think that is fair. I just want to say one thing--this board gets a LOT of slack, but I think this is exactly what a board needs to be. Leadership when you need it, but otherwise good discussions, things are allowed within reason, and when it gets out of line, intervention. I think that's what a lot of us are looking for. (NT) -- longtime poster, 05:54:43 07/24/14 Thu Thank you Moderator! This trend of bashing teenage girls and young ladies who stand up for themselves when they feel they have been wronged needs to stop! MAO is supposed to be about rewarding confident, bold women, so why are some of y'all blatantly bashing girls who are not rolling over submissively and giving up a title that they have no legal obligation to give up? I'm not saying condone what has happened in NV, but don't attack a 15 and 17 year old for not willingly suffering for the actions of corrupt adults! (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 06:01:07 07/24/14 Thu THANK YOU MODERATOR, I suspected as much. Lots of arm-chair quarterbacking. Let it Go! (NT) -- No name, 06:41:42 07/24/14 Thu I feel really bad for the teen. None of this is her fault. I can't imagine "winning" something big then being asked two months later to give it up. (NT) -- No name, 15:16:37 07/24/14 Thu And the bannings have started (NT) -- Moderator, 14:48:44 07/25/14 Fri I think this is a fair enough stance. (NT) -- No name, 16:15:40 07/25/14 Fri I think this is fair, ESPECIALLY since these girls are teenagers. I know people get away with saying some pretty vicious things about the Miss contestants, but I'm glad to see someone's looking out for the Teens. The situation is awful, and I can't believe any young lady would put herself in it willingly. Criticize the adults who should not have let this occur, but NOT the girls. All they did was compete. (NT) -- No name, 18:16:40 07/25/14 Fri

Subject: I find it interesting that no one ever talks about Nina. Why is that?
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 23:09:46 07/13/14 Sun [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
Replies:
As much as I like Nina, she is totally forgettable (NT) -- No name, 12:31:41 07/14/14 Mon Agreed. I don't think she was that popular among the pageant masses when she won as Laura and Mallory were. And she's not unpopular like Teresa was. Among pageant people, I mean. I guess it means people are indifferent, which is at least better than nothing. I for one am looking forward to someone new. (NT) -- No name, 12:36:02 07/14/14 Mon I think she has made a positive impact for the organization as far as marketability goes. Many college campuses are now more inclined to invite Miss A back if her platform speaks to the 17-22 audience, however, I find her arrogant and dismissive attitude one that does not coincide with the ideals I place on a Miss America. To each their own. (NT) -- No name, 00:37:34 07/15/14 Tue I like Nina too. I don't think she's forgettable. I'm just not sure what she's doing. I for one don't bring her up because I don't want to deal with the rabid haters. (NT) -- No name, 18:51:10 07/14/14 Mon Exactly (NT) -- No name, 21:21:03 07/14/14 Mon Bingo!! (NT) -- No name, 22:24:50 07/14/14 Mon Every single Miss America, as long as these boards have been in existence, has had vocal critics. Nina is not immune, nor are her "haters" any more rabid than anybody else's. If you don't want to deal with them, then don't. Don't respond to the comments you consider hateful or bashing. Sometimes those people are only looking for a reaction, or vindication of their own feelings. Responding or arguing only draws mroe negativity out and that is what they are looking for. Don't play the game. There is no reason that those of us who wish to discuss our Miss America , (whoever she is), and her travels can't do so, keeping in mind not everyone will agree. Differing opinions are normal and you can't have a discussion without them. Intelligent people will find a way to state them without being offensive or rude. (NT) -- If no one engages them, immature posters will eventually get bored and go away, 06:36:11 07/15/14 Tue Disagree. With the whole Mallory angle and some very bitter people who can't move on their lives, it's not worth bringing Nina up. I think she's doing a lot and has brought visibility to the program in both entertainment and government. No one's saying she's immune, but I've never seen anything like what happened with Nina this year except maybe with Theresa. It still wasn't the same kind of "critics." This was a special breed of vindictive, sadistic individuals who couldn't move on and loved keeping the drama alive (NT) -- this board is evidence of that; it was build on the nastiness, 15:36:21 07/23/14 Wed Here's the deal, nothing Nina is doing is new. First of all, she doesn't book her own appearances so the things she is doing are because of the Miss America Organization pushing things such as STEM. Her platform IS timely and because of her race she's well-equiped to talk about "Cultural Diversity" but the issue stems from the fact that someone who is supposed to be promoting this idea is, in fact, someone who has been caught red-handed making racist remarks. Add that to negatively speaking about a Miss America AND other girls in her pageant. My point is that Nina is doing fine as Miss America, but let's not act like SHE is the one doing it. Several people who have met her find her off-putting and keeping the "drama" alive isnt about anything other than people dismissing the fact that we have a "mean girl" for Miss America. That being said, I don't have to be a Mallory fan to be aggravated by Nina's win and MAO's lack of responsibility in the matter. (NT) -- No name, 16:06:53 07/23/14 Wed Exhibit A folks (NT) -- No name, 19:20:51 07/23/14 Wed Hardly. The above poster was very diplomatic and fair in her critique of Nina, hardly what I would call vindictive or bitter. Like it or not the tape drama did cast a dark cloud over Nina's reign for those of us in the know. She's done a great job with her year but I can't bring myself to like her or gush over her. I'm hoping we'll get a warmer and more personable winner this year and Nina will have her rightful place in Miss America history and the positive aspects of her win will have a lasting impact. (NT) -- No name, 19:49:51 07/23/14 Wed No one's asking you to gush over her, but enough with the tape already. It allegedly happend and what? What, what, what? That's my point. People can't move on. Nothing is happening. Nothing can be done about it. This board had bad pictures of Nina in a swimsuit 3 months after she won cackling over her thighs even though by the way she is the ONLY Miss America who has kept her appearance up in years beyond the pageant. The tape thing and the level of vindictiveness went on far too long to be considered anything other than spiteful. And then when Mallory, tackily, started chiming in making childish innuendos it gave a second life to the "controversy." Enough already. There is supposedly a tape. You don't like Nina. We get it, we get it. Move on. (NT) -- That's why I don't bring her up because she's doing fine all by herself whether this board likes it or not, 05:38:51 07/25/14 Fri I mean. She's gained some weight. Let's be honest. (NT) -- No name, 09:14:40 07/25/14 Fri Who are you telling to move on? I said I don't care for her so I don't talk about her. That's the definition of being moved on. Sometimes I'll comment on an outfit or her hair and makeup but in general I just don't talk about her. (I'm not the same poster who commented on her weight). What more do you want from those of us? Myself and another poster respectfully told you why we don't like her or care to talk about her because the question was asked. (NT) -- No name, 10:44:33 07/25/14 Fri I don't think there's been an unusual amount of nastiness towards Nina. Everytime a picture was posted of Mallory someone had to call her fat or "not that pretty", it was constant. (NT) -- No name, 16:31:27 07/23/14 Wed Mallory was attacked for her weight on a daily basis. Nasty comments about Theresa's wig every single time a new photo was posted. Kirsten's weight was discussed endlessly her entire year. Carassa was criticized for nearly every thing she did or said, so much so that her mother felt compelled to come on and defend her. Laura and Katie were less controversial, but they had their share of vocal critics. My point is, the negative postings about Nina are not unique to her. In fact, I think she has had it much easier than most! I would rather it be quiet and not have her talked about than to have to wade through all the carping that the other girls endured. (NT) -- No name, 16:39:50 07/23/14 Wed Mallory did gain weight. Theresa was wearing a ridiculous looking wig. Kristen was thin for someone who had an anorexia platform. Caressa, for all of those who knew her in VA, was cold and calculating. The most anyone could say about Laura and Katie was that although beautiful they were boring. Criticisms about Nina have been pretty much hearsay over alleged stuff. That's the difference for me. If her criticisms were based on something we could all see or that we all had evidence of it wouldn't look like a witchhunt to me. And the drama with the former Miss A both from the same state is what made it especially bad. (NT) -- No name, 05:41:54 07/25/14 Fri Much of us have criticized her attitude, which plenty of people can see upon meeting her. Frankly, I would rather have a gracious, kind, smart, self-aware young woman who gains some weight or wears a wig than one who feels entitled to cancel appearances and refuse photos. (NT) -- And I know she has done both, for a fact. Just because you cant SEE things, doesn't mean they aren't there. Of course MAO isn't going to announce that she's a pain in the ass., 17:09:27 07/25/14 Fri Because she's an arrogant young lady not deserving of the Miss America crown (NT) -- No name, 04:15:21 07/15/14 Tue Why you ask, because of people like the above poster. I love her!! -- Love her, 06:02:05 07/15/14 Tue I'm sorry...She's arrogant? Where would you even get that from? Nina is one of the nicest and most genuine girls I've ever met. You may want to think before you post. (NT) -- --, 09:19:18 07/22/14 Tue Well I have seen and experienced otherwise. Nina is nice to people/girls who are not a "threat" to her. So, basically, if she's nice to you it's because she doesn't feel as though you are better than her. Sorry! (NT) -- No name, 09:24:41 07/22/14 Tue Especially now that Mallory offically acknowledged the existence of "the tapes," I don't think she was the best choice for. I would have much preferred to see Crystal Lee wear the crown all year. (NT) -- No name, 09:31:04 07/22/14 Tue Will also add, I think it's completely shameful that there are multiple videos of Nina being interviewed on talk shows where she outright lies and says that the situation never happened. I don't agree with how that situation was handled at all. (NT) -- No name, 09:32:29 07/22/14 Tue Nina and Mallory are 2 of my favorite Miss A's. IMO Mallory chose to protect her reign and not throw Nina under the bus at the crucial point before she was crowned. By doing what was asked she avoided also being in a public scandal. She made her choices about the tapes. As far as Nina goes, it was terrible what she supposedly said but she is human and not perfect. I'm willing to venture that 95% of pageant girls have said unflattering things about others in what they thought was a "safe" haven to vent... Unfortunately, she was taped without her consent and it fired back. Whatever people say about Miss A picking who they want... I can't imagine they would have picked her after this scandal. It just goes to show... It is done by the judges. (NT) -- Forgive and forget... And move on, 00:40:21 07/23/14 Wed Have heard from sponsors and photographers she is quite cold. (NT) -- No name, 10:02:02 07/22/14 Tue Apparently she outright told the CMO of Pink and Pepper that she did not like their shoes at her Homecoming in NY. They are not coming back as sponsors because of her. (NT) -- No name, 18:23:35 07/22/14 Tue I've heard that as well, she refused to wear them. (NT) -- No name, 19:17:30 07/22/14 Tue Well, there could be many reasons why she didnt wear them. There are many popular brands that don't make anything that fit my foot but other people love like born and Skechers. (NT) -- I wear a 7 1/2 so it is not an unusual size just a very high arched foot that is slightly narrow., 00:31:32 07/23/14 Wed Nina just said "they aren't my style." I would venture to say that many Miss A's didn't like Ribkoff, but they didn't have a choice. Even if Nina doesn't like Pink and Pepper, she could have still promoted them via social media. Instead, she personally has burned a bridge that could have been a wonderful asset to MAO. (NT) -- No name, 01:33:28 07/23/14 Wed So it is ok for her to lie to a sponcer? You people are to much for TV -- Sad, 05:59:35 07/23/14 Wed Oh please. We're talking about shoes here, she's not being asked to promote a questionable weight loss supplement or swear that a cream cleared her skin up in 2 days. All she has to do is wear the shoes and promote them, she's Miss America and that's part of her job. (NT) -- No name, 06:12:29 07/23/14 Wed I agree. MANY Miss Americas before her did the same thing. Very sadly, they sponsored the shoe parade last year. Good luck finding a replacement. If I remember correctly, Mallory personally got the MAO that sponsorship. When you are Miss America, you promote the sponsors whether you love them or hate them. There are plenty of other contestants who would be all too willing to do it. (NT) -- No name, 07:30:22 07/23/14 Wed So it is ok for Miss A to lie to a sponcer. and you know contestants that are willing to lie. Sad just sad! -- Sad, 07:42:15 07/23/14 Wed It's not lying...its called doing your job. If you work for an advertising/marketing company it is your job to promote the clients products regardless of whether you would purchase them yourself. This is the same type of situation. It is her responsiblity to promote MAO's sponsers. (NT) -- No name, 07:56:27 07/23/14 Wed Well she's proven that she has no problem lying, so this shouldn't have been an issue. (NT) -- No name, 08:01:13 07/23/14 Wed HAHAHA touche (NT) -- No name, 10:28:09 07/23/14 Wed Also, could you learn how to spell? Great. Thank you. (NT) -- No name, 15:49:46 07/23/14 Wed The reason why no one talks about Nina, is the poor PR job Miss America does with her and all other Miss Americas to the public. In this age of electronic media, we should hear something daily (NT) -- No name, 09:23:49 07/25/14 Fri Well Nina isn't a social media queen, either. (NT) -- No name, 09:45:32 07/25/14 Fri

Subject: Cinderella Internationals
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 23:39:42 07/23/14 Wed Could someone explain the judging system at Cinderella Int'ls? I don't quite understand how they do it if they don't use points when there are 75 or so contestants in a division. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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I can I've you a detailed answer if you'd like, but the long and the short of it is: judges conference and rankings. The three judges must agree unanimously and sign off on their selections. (NT) -- Let me know if you would like the full break down of how it works though., 06:39:45 07/25/14 Fri Yes... Please explain. I'm thinking about taking my daughter next year. (NT) -- No name, 06:58:37 07/25/14 Fri Great! Click in: -- Ill do this in several parts, it's a lot of info!, 08:12:32 07/25/14 Fri Part Two -- No name, 08:17:11 07/25/14 Fri Part 3 -- No name, 08:45:44 07/25/14 Fri I know Cinderella doesn't double crown but is it possible to be crowned in photogenic and still place in beauty or talent? (NT) -- No name, 13:26:24 07/25/14 Fri Or be crowned in beauty or talent and place in another area? Also- which is higher- beauty or talent? (NT) -- No name, 13:39:44 07/25/14 Fri Yes to both questions though it almost never happens on the international level. (NT) -- Beauty and Talent are considered weighted equally. 50% each., 14:06:37 07/25/14 Fri

Subject: Truth about MNOT
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 20:37:26 07/23/14 Wed I will make this as short as possible: The Smith sisters received special treatment and broke rules from the minute they were crowned at their preliminary. The Smith family has a very close personal relationship with the former ED, Amy Hacker. She allowed them to break rules all along � some that were broken at the pageant were: having/using cell phones, leaving their room without a chaperone, their mother going backstage and speaking with production staff and mandatory paperwork not being handed in at check-in. Haleyann was the preliminary talent winner for the teens. In such a small pageant (14 contestants), this holds a lot of value. The prelim talent winner is �usually� either the 1st RU or the winner. When the top 5 was announced and Haleyann did not place, red flags went up. Amy was not a stand out and an unexpected winner, therefore, more red flags went up. Immediately following the pageant, the President of the board resigned. Most of the parents and directors, along with others, all submitted complaints to MAOT and MAO requesting the ballots be audited and the broken rules/regulations be investigated. The Miss NV Board was allowed to basically investigate themselves and the lies continued. They audited themselves and surprise, the results came out the same. When MAOT finally requested the ballots and audited them, it was found that the scholastic scores were all incorrect. The entire Miss Nevada Board was fired. Amy Hacker claimed that Haleyann never submitted her transcripts, which was a lie and there is proof that they were submitted. Once these scores were added in correctly, the top 5 changed, leaving only two of the original top 5, one being Amy Smith. Haleyann was now in the top 5. The judges were sent ballots with the new top 5 and were asked to rank them. The winner was Haleyann. End of story. Haleyann should be the only MNOT. The reason Amy Smith won was that the Miss Nevada Board cheated and changed scores so she would win. It wasn�t a close race between the two. The Smiths have hired an attorney and are refusing to have Amy step down. Not sure how they are getting away with it, but they are insisting she still competes along with the real winner at MAOT, which is ridiculous. Again, she is not the winner � Haleyann is the winner and they are turning the whole thing into a circus. Do the right thing and step down, Amy. You and your family have all caused the other contestants and their families enough heartache. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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Thank you for this explanation. I wish Haleyann the best. (NT) -- No name, 20:56:25 07/23/14 Wed We are in the process of fighting with Mao for the miss to be audited but because of the smiths fit they are not going to do anything. We are in the process of working with attorneys and the media! (NT) -- No name, 21:35:44 07/23/14 Wed The miss division needs to be audited. Otherwise, it will never be laid to rest and no one will ever be satisfied with the results. If Ellie was the true winner, there should not be anything to fear by the Smiths or anyone else. If she wasn't then MAO might as well get it all out so the new board can start fresh. (NT) -- No name, 22:15:06 07/23/14 Wed Ya, that's what we are working on. The sad thing is, we will never really know the real scores. Amy had to be put as first runner up to make the pageant not look as bad and poor Haleyann will never get her much deserved crowning moment and neither will the real winner of the miss! I can't believe the ED, Amy Hacker, can sleep at night knowing what she did! (NT) -- No name, 22:31:06 07/23/14 Wed Thank you for finally clearing things up! I do agree that it would be honorable for Amy to step down. (NT) -- No name, 21:03:00 07/23/14 Wed Finally, it seems like we have the real story. I thought it was very odd that the older sister, Miss NV, would post on social media that her little sister and Haleyann were both attending MAOT. You would think she wouldn't post anything if there was controversy which included her little sister. Seemed a little bold to me. (NT) -- What a shame this all had to happen., 21:09:11 07/23/14 Wed Is MAO going to audit the Miss? (NT) -- No name, 21:24:57 07/23/14 Wed They have trying to get this fixed since 1 week after the pageant. MAO has kept pushing it under the rug, and trying to make it go away. (NT) -- No name, 21:36:29 07/23/14 Wed When all this has settled, I don't think MAO's clean reputation will ever be the same... Sad day! (NT) -- No name, 21:39:40 07/23/14 Wed People have short memories (outside of pageants). They do need to have some sort of independent auditor at every state pageant next year. I would say they also need them at locals (or have it known they will be audited after). (NT) -- No name, 22:08:22 07/23/14 Wed Thank OP for the scoop! (NT) -- No name, 22:46:43 07/23/14 Wed Hate to be the bearer of unpopular legal news, but Amy did win MNVOT. She ranked the highest of the top 5 given to the judges that night. The fact that they were incorrect is irrelevant, especially since she was in the top 5 anyway. The judges ranking the "correct" top 5 two months after the fact doesn't change the original result. No one can say with 100% certainty that Amy would not have won on her own THAT NIGHT. And that is what the Smiths' attorney should be arguing. They cannot "re-judge" the pageant 2 months later and declare a different girl the "rightful" winner based on those scores. The judges' opinions may have completely changed in hindsight and that isn't a fair judgement of what happened at the pageant. I believe MAOT allowing both girls to compete is the best solution in a bad situation. I have no arguments for the Smiths' in moral terms, but they must have a valid legal argument or Amy's title would have been revoked by now. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 23:27:00 07/23/14 Wed She won out of the top 5 given but she didnt win out of the real top 5 so I wouldn't call it a win. I see no harm in letting her compete. It will make her look even worse if Hayleyann places ahead of her though. (NT) -- Honestly, I can't believe her mother would actually want her exposed to all the negativity she will receive if she does go- both to her face and behind her back. I'm not trying to be mean just realistic., 23:46:02 07/23/14 Wed I don't think you can really call anyone the "real" winner in this situation, the only way they could really determine anything would be to completely re-do the MNVOT pageant, and ain't nobody got time for that! I wish them both the best in Orlando, and at this point whatever happens, happens. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 01:29:50 07/24/14 Thu I would hardly say that the top 5 being incorrect is irrelevent. (NT) -- No name, 00:35:43 07/24/14 Thu It's irrelevant now that they were wrong, legally speaking, because there is no way to prove that there is no possibility that she won on her own, especially since she was in the correct top five. Any decent lawyer is going to argue that they have no way of definitively knowing that she wouldn't have won on her own with the correct top 5 being ranked. And the opinions the judges gave on the corrected ballot a few days ago may not be a true reflection of how they would have voted at the pageant 2 months ago, especially if they have come across or come to believe anything negative about Amy. There is no way to determine, for legal purposes, who the winner would have been that night in Las Vegas. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 01:24:52 07/24/14 Thu But using that logic they should legally let the entire top 5 compete. Letting Amy compete opens them up to lawsuits from 3 other girls who they can't prove wouldn't have won either. (NT) -- No name, 04:10:38 07/24/14 Thu That may be, but I doubt Amy's attorney is going to worry with the ramifications for the other 3 top 5 girls, as long as it gets the job done for his client. Also, letting Haleyann compete, and not Amy, opens them up to lawsuits from the 3 and Amy, because the re-rank happened 2 months after the fact. And MAOT can't just choose to not follow that logic if it is valid and the lawyers bring it up. The way I see it MAOT has two choices, send them both or send no one for Nevada this year. And that is marginally more unfair to Haleyann than any other option is to anyone else. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 06:22:41 07/24/14 Thu Sorry that the judges called in to MAO and MAOT and said that the top 5 including the winner was a complete shock! No one in the audience stood up for the smith girls besides their family, as soon as Amy won the audience knew it was rigged! It's funny when the Emcee is handed 4 envelopes instead of 2 and the ED pulls the emcee off stage to make corrections! (NT) -- No name, 07:22:27 07/24/14 Thu OP here....more info -- No name, 06:31:32 07/24/14 Thu That is very sad if it's true, but wouldn't the audit by MAO have proven it if Amy wasn't even the winner from the at-pageant top 5? If that had been the case, Amy's win would be considered a "tabulation error" and the Smiths' would have no legal grounds to argue on for Amy keeping the title and this mess would have been over already. Not saying that you don't know what's going on, just pointing out other possible explanations. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 06:42:46 07/24/14 Thu I have been reading all this info posted. If the original winner was in the correctly in the top 5 and won by final ballot that night, I don't think a final ballot 2 months after the fact is really a true indicator of the winner. Alot has gone on and been said, therefore the 2nd final ballot could have been influenced by this. It is a sad situation for both girls to be placed in. Also this is very different than the other incidents that were caught that same night or the next day like FL. That was an error on tabulation of the final ballot by the auditor. While it is not the best situation, I think MAOT should probably let both girls compete. Neither of these girls have done anything wrong, they are just caught up in a mess created by others. (NT) -- No name, 07:00:12 07/24/14 Thu The real winner won all the preliminary categories, but wasn't put on the Top Five Ballot. She would have been the overall winner. The announced winner was questioned that evening as a surprise. We know now why. (NT) -- No name, 08:27:56 07/24/14 Thu Broke rules -- No name, 12:21:46 07/24/14 Thu No, I think they're teaching their daughters to stand up for what's right. (NT) -- No name, 12:31:58 07/24/14 Thu Seriously, standing up for everything wrong! (NT) -- No name, 13:18:20 07/24/14 Thu So they should be teaching their daughters to keep quiet when they sense something is wrong? It's been proven that there were "scoring irregularities" so it's obviously not a case of sour grapes. (NT) -- No name, 15:10:50 07/24/14 Thu They did the right thing. One would hope that if there are requests for an audit it would be shown the correct girl won and the losers would have to support that. Unfortunately, it shows that there was major corruption as suspected. I totally thought this was a case of sour grapes but there was clearly a cover up. Hopefully, this will lead to a cleaner run program in all states with questions. (NT) -- No name, 13:34:18 07/25/14 Fri I'd be more worried about what the Smiths are teaching their daughters. (NT) -- No name, 13:16:10 07/24/14 Thu

Subject: Guru and the Nevada mess?!?!?!
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 14:47:14 07/23/14 Wed Anybody else wondering if the Guru mod may somehow be involved in the Nevada mess? Mighty odd that every single mention is removed--and a friend just told me she has been banned for asking an innocent question about how they'd handle two OTs. Nothing inflammatory, just a simple question. Maybe some of this is hitting close to home??? Perhaps friendships are at stake here?? Perhaps favors are being called in??? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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The Guru removes anything that isn't confirmed by nationals and sometimes, even then. The Guru removed the mess with the Miss FL scandal AND the reports about Miss DE, including the fact that the girl who lost her crown was suing. So I think it's paranoid to think that the Guru is involved in the Nevada mess. If anything, if the stuff had been allowed to stay on the board, I'd swear the Guru was on the other side of the issue (NT) -- No name, 14:53:00 07/23/14 Wed I never this board was so active or I would of been on it years ago. I use to post on Guru however this recent turn of events and deleting what he/she feels like is not a message board community. That is the Guru controlling what they want. The final sttraw was guru saying "my board" in regards to the recent things being deleted. That made many of us go bye bye (NT) -- No name, 15:18:12 07/23/14 Wed Every board has an owner. I own a state board and I consider it "my" board since I am the one responsible for what shows on there. If illegal info is shown, I'm the one they will come after. I've always had the feeling that the Guru doesn't really want every Tom, Dick, and Harry posting there. (NT) -- No name, 15:29:06 07/23/14 Wed Guru doesn't mind if Tom, Dick and Harry post there, as long as their opinions are Guru-approved....it is what it is. Thank God for this board. (NT) -- No name, 15:58:22 07/23/14 Wed it's confirmed. MAOT just sent ED's and media a press release stateing that this is indeed true that both girls will represent NV at MAOT. (NT) -- in the know, 16:07:14 07/23/14 Wed Link or it didn't happen. Lol. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 16:26:23 07/23/14 Wed Ditto for a link or at least a copy of the email sent out (NT) -- No name, 16:31:42 07/23/14 Wed OP here I don't know how to show a picture but will try to copy inside post here -- No name, 16:41:55 07/23/14 Wed for some reason this seems fishy -- No name, 16:49:58 07/23/14 Wed Oohh. this just interesting. (NT) -- No name, 16:54:34 07/23/14 Wed believe what you want. It's true, you'll see it all very soon, very public. Don't say i didn't warn you. (NT) -- I have nothing to gain from this info, 16:56:08 07/23/14 Wed Haleyann is a minor, MAOT has to protect her privacy until she gives them an answer. Amy's name was in it because it's public knowledge that she won. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 17:16:43 07/23/14 Wed what I don't understand is if Haleyann was never subjected to ranking, how could she have been determined to have been the winner? A girl who has the highest point total after prelims sometimes doesn't win on ranking.... this is just strange. Also find all the "you will see very soon," "wait till this all comes out" etc. very weird (NT) -- No name, 16:58:11 07/23/14 Wed Well if Amy wasn't ranked against all the girls that were supposed to be in Top 5 she technically didnt win either. (NT) -- No name, 18:12:31 07/23/14 Wed Amy was 1st Runner Up (NT) -- No name, 17:41:18 07/24/14 Thu the Top 5 on June 1st changed last week when the judges ballots were re-audited. (NT) -- No name, 19:36:22 07/23/14 Wed That thought crossed my mind too. They even exposed a poster's ID for first exposing this drama. (NT) -- No name, 18:20:26 07/24/14 Thu I just got blocked for mentioning that there is an explanation about the situation on this board. I didn't even make a judgement about it. Someone was just asking. (NT) -- No name, 20:28:32 07/24/14 Thu Were you completely blocked or can you at least read the board? Two of my friends were targeted by Guru; one has been completely denied access to the board, but the other can read but not post. Something is very, very fishy with Pageant Guru, Very fishy. (NT) -- No name, 08:29:48 07/25/14 Fri I was blocked awhile ago and got access back, but am now realizing I can't post! I didn't know Guru could do that. UGH (NT) -- No name, 08:33:32 07/25/14 Fri How long were you blocked? My friend is wondering if it is permanent. I have steered her to this board, which I love. I only wish the state links at the top were updated. For instance, GA is an invalid board as listed and I know there is a GA board that is active. is there some way to ge the state links here updated? That was really my only reason for visiting Guru. (NT) -- No name, 08:44:44 07/25/14 Fri I was blocked for 3 days, I think. (NT) -- No name, 10:41:41 07/25/14 Fri Total power trip (NT) -- No name, 11:21:18 07/25/14 Fri It is weird. I was completely blocked for a couple of hours and now I just can't post. (NT) -- It doesn't matter. I'm traveling so good luck keeping up with me Guru., 13:17:38 07/25/14 Fri I can post now on a thread, but I can't start my own. Such unnecessary drama! (NT) -- No name, 13:19:39 07/25/14 Fri

Subject: Thoughts on NAM or IJM for girls?
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 18:58:55 06/25/14 Wed Hi - my 7 year old has been asking to compete in a pageant. I've done a bit of research and NAM & IJM keep popping up. Does anyone have experience or opinions on these two systems? I know we won't just want to walk in as total newbies, so I would hire coaching if needed. Is there any help from the directors on things like stage walk, wardrobe, etc before the state pageant? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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NAM is a big organization....hard to win the first time out and even the second time out....I would not start there. NAM is well run machine though. over 900 girls at the National Pageant. I think NAM may make more tha Trump on MIss Universe! Coed is a little smaller. good luck! to you. (NT) -- No name, 22:14:54 06/25/14 Wed I think for her first few pageants it wouldn't hurt to just let her compete in a few small local ones, maybe a county fair or something along those lines. That way you'll know if she really likes it before putting money into a bigger system and investing in coaching. Cinderella is another multi age system with a good reputation. (NT) -- No name, 06:45:57 06/26/14 Thu She has competed in some Little Miss Blueberry and such and really likes being onstage. I have heard some things about Cinderella and Our Little Miss - that you have to "know somebody" in order to place, but I guess that is true in a lot of pageants. :) Do you know if NAM and IJM give a lot of instruction on what is expected? She is only 7 but I don't want to go into this blindly. (NT) -- No name, 11:56:31 06/26/14 Thu I would really recommend Coed. The numbers are smaller and she can get her feet wet. NAM can be overwhelming as there are so many girls (200 per division is not uncommon) and they are very well prepared. (NT) -- No name, 13:18:53 06/26/14 Thu I agree with the above poster... Coed is smaller and not as overwhelming....Cinderella is nice depending on your state (but can also be huge) ...or state fair or little pageants or Teen Achieve has a new 7-11 division even. NAM is very very big for the first timer. Cinderella pageant if it's not huge huge--some states it is huge as well. (NT) -- No name, 10:42:17 06/28/14 Sat Cinderella is a wonderful system and great preparation for MAO. I have done well in that system and I don't "know" anyone. (NT) -- I would start with a preliminary for Cinderella and go from there., 08:14:25 07/09/14 Wed NAM -- No name, 22:22:39 06/28/14 Sat I grew up doing Cinderella and can't wait to have a daughter to compete in the system. It has a very strong state program in Texas, Arizona, Tennessee, North Carolina, Nevada and there are lots of other states that do well too. (NT) -- Current Int'l titleholders are from Az, Fl, Ok, And Texas., 23:06:51 07/08/14 Tue In some states, Cinderella ends up being the fast track to Miss State... (NT) -- No name, 23:28:28 07/08/14 Tue NO -- No name, 09:30:33 07/09/14 Wed NAM is awesome! Click in -- anonymous, 18:51:36 07/10/14 Thu Does anyone have experience with OLM? It sounds easier to get feet wet than NAM since there are local prelims. Right now we're not interested in Cinderella due to some of the rumors I have heard from current participants parents. (NT) -- No name, 13:20:07 07/11/14 Fri Or their sister pageant, universal beauty? (NT) -- No name, 13:26:58 07/11/14 Fri What are some of the comments about Cinderella? I don't know anyone there, so am clueless about what I'd be getting into... (NT) -- No name, 14:01:03 07/11/14 Fri I'm interested as well. (NT) -- No name, 15:08:30 07/11/14 Fri OLM is very old fashioned in many ways. They seem to be behind the times and not in a good way. (NT) -- No name, 15:07:43 07/11/14 Fri Cinderella really loves the dated outfits. How is OLM dated? (NT) -- No name, 17:28:09 07/11/14 Fri From my experience OLM really likes the dated outfits. IMO, Cinderella really like simple and tailored in order to let the girl shine. Cindy outfits are a little boring but more classic. Everything about OLM is like going back in time from the crowns to the contracts to the website. At one point they were a great program back in the day, but they really need to update and do a makeover all around while still keeping their basic values. (NT) -- No name, 19:38:13 07/11/14 Fri Agree 100% with this post. Cinderella is classic and tailored (more fashion forward in the Teen and Woman divisions). (NT) -- OLM is a hot mess clothing wise., 20:26:03 07/11/14 Fri Cinderella seems very dated to me. I'm looking at the 6-7 year age groups right now on Facebook and most of them are wearing KNEE SOCKS for sportswear. (NT) -- No name, 15:19:27 07/24/14 Thu Knee socks is a very classic look for a little girl (NT) -- Not dated at all, 06:41:10 07/25/14 Fri Can someone explain how the outfits are dated or classic? Specifically how the systems wardrobes differ? Pics? Examples? (NT) -- No name, 08:48:27 07/12/14 Sat OLM allows bling and embellishments and semi glitz cupcake style dresses where as Cinderella is more Easter dress, smocked dresses, plain silks in the younger divisions. (NT) -- OLM has very strict clothing rules where Cinderella only asks that you are modest and age appropriate in attire choices. The Teen and Woman (18-26) divisions at Cinderella is more MAO style as far as clothing, makeup etc., 17:41:17 07/12/14 Sat How is the "sportswear"? That seems so ambiguous, for both OLM and Cindy. Looks like there could be a happy medium in dresses though... . (NT) -- No name, 18:58:41 07/12/14 Sat OLM sportswear must be pants/capris/shorts and no embellishments. Only pearl earrings. (NT) -- Cinderella is much trendier, they call it Casualwear., 22:49:15 07/12/14 Sat In Cinderella, it must be dresses and outfits that you would wear in real life to a fancy event, church, brunch, etc. no rhinestones or blitzed up clothes except in talent. (NT) -- No name, 13:07:10 07/13/14 Sun Depends on the age division as far as embellishment to clothing in Cinderella. In the 9 and under divisions dresses usually have no embellishment and casual wears will have some things like ric rac, bows etc. the 10-12 division is where you start to see some seed beading or small pearl/rhinestone accents on the formal wear. 14 and up is just like MAO so beaded/bling gowns, bling jewelry, and statement jewelry in Casualwear. . (NT) -- No name, 12:12:09 07/14/14 Mon OLM is very conservative and encourages the girls to look and act their age. Talent is a huge part of the competition in OLM. Universal Beauty does not require talent, so more girls participate in that competition. Nationals are family friendly events. (NT) -- No name, 15:01:48 07/12/14 Sat That's a shame that your daughter will miss out on the fun and experience of Cinderella base on here say. (NT) -- Go and form your own opinion., 20:27:34 07/11/14 Fri Cinderella also makes a huge effort to recognize as many girls as possible, even providing crowns for sub categories. They are wonderful!!!!! (NT) -- No name, 18:02:35 07/13/14 Sun Does anyone know anything about "International Girl" pageant? Reading through their info, it sounds very similar to OLM and Cinderella. Same type of divisions/judging, etc... (NT) -- No name, 23:18:47 07/13/14 Sun Smaller but nice awards. As some stated above, NAM is the largest and most prestigious of its type of pageants, so smaller "starter" systems that are similar would be COED, IJM, and Dream Girls. (NT) -- Cinderella is the largest and most prestigious of the multi-age scholarship systems. Other smaller systems that are similar are OLM, IG, Americas Girl, and ODM., 12:07:44 07/14/14 Mon My hearsay is based on contacting three directors from two different states, whose own daughters do well at internationals. They both told me that NAM's judging was more "fair" and it wasn't as much about who you know. :( (NT) -- No name, 15:18:11 07/24/14 Thu I highly doubt that. (NT) -- No name, 06:42:01 07/25/14 Fri Hit enter too soon. I highly doubt that, as I wouldn't think a director would find their own system unfair r they wouldn't be participating. (NT) -- Besides the fact that there are very few state directors in Cinderella who's children compete in outside systems (other than MAO/MUO) if they have children that compete at all., 06:45:22 07/25/14 Fri And as I stated above, I knew no one in Cinderella when I began and had immediate success (NT) -- You absolutely shouldn't take second hand information on amy system. Love NAM too, but Cinderella is amazing as well., 07:07:17 07/25/14 Fri My daughters have experience with NAM, Coed, and IJM. (NT) -- NO to coed. IJM was a great experience, NAM is what they have stated, a cattle call. Between my two daughters, they have held state titles in all three. So, my assessment is from experience state and nationally., 19:09:29 07/23/14 Wed Coed has been around FOREVER, since back when it only had teens who won state pageants and went all expenses paid trips to nationals, much like the original national teenager page at did. Why has it lost its luster? (NT) -- No name, 21:47:55 07/23/14 Wed Oops, pageant, not page. (NT) -- No name, 21:50:54 07/23/14 Wed If MAO is your daughter's ultimate goal I would stand firm with OLM or Cinderella. My daughter did OLM for many years and she feels strongly that it has given her the foundation she needed to move into MAO. She has friends who competed in Cinderella and they feel the same about their experience. Both have reputations for being clique like, but I think it is because so many of the families have competed together for so long. (NT) -- No name, 22:11:41 07/23/14 Wed Coed is clique like too.As a beginner do I J M or Cinderella. (NT) -- They have fair judging and you can start small., 04:14:13 07/24/14 Thu Love NAM, Coed is OK, and IJM - not a fan -- No name, 12:39:23 07/24/14 Thu I would like your tips on NAM since your daughter did very well right off the bat. (NT) -- No name, 15:23:28 07/24/14 Thu NAM tips -- No name, 17:16:36 07/24/14 Thu

Subject: Absolutely! If the ED eliminated 3 of the 5 top five just to get a result of the girl she wanted as a winner, what do you suppose she probably did to the Miss contestants?? Hmmm, not to hard to figure out, right?
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 15:57:51 07/22/14 Tue [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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You are absolutely right!! (NT) -- No name, 19:14:09 07/22/14 Tue Granted the top 3 in the miss were all and the only former ot's. Although they should have done well it's almost impossible to have that happen in exact order! (NT) -- No name, 07:34:08 07/24/14 Thu And the woman behind all the deception was the longtime ED of the NVOT pageant! (NT) -- No name, 07:56:36 07/24/14 Thu

Subject: What the Nevada decisions could mean to MAO
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 06:50:19 07/24/14 Thu If indeed MAO/MAOT has allowed the original winner and the leader after prelims to both compete at nationals, doesn't it hurt their other decisions this season? Miss DE and CO's OT both had their titles removed because of not fulfilling age requirements. Both clearly stated their ages and were okay by state (and in DE's case local) boards. They were not given an exception. Miss FL was removed because of a tabulation error. Her state director knew about this for days, but still allowed Elizabeth to drop out of school and make significant changes in her life. Elizabeth wasn't given an exception. Now, NVOT crowns a girl who was the clear points leader after prelims and who the Teen Director removed from the Top Five list. She was rightfully given the title, but the announced winner, who most likely wouldn't have beaten her in the final ballot is allowed to keep her title. Why was she given an exception? And more importantly, will MAOT/MAO making that exception not weaken their cases in all the other decisions they have made this summer. I forsee more lawsuits and two Miss DEs being allowed to compete. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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DE committed fraud on the application. It was her fault first and foremost. (The idiot EDs should have caught it but too bad so sad). Age issue is completely different from scoring irregularities. Period. (NT) -- No name, 07:10:45 07/24/14 Thu There have been other OTs in the past that were crowned and were too old. The age requirements are not as clear cut as Miss. But it is a legal document and the contestant and parents should look carefully at what they are signing. It is the directors responsibility to check it. As humans, mistakes happen. This situation in NV is not a mistake, it sounds like it was done purposely and the outcome is based on the possibility of avoiding lawsuits. This will now encourage anyone who doesn't win to cry foul play. (NT) -- No name, 07:50:53 07/24/14 Thu First of all, the age limits are clearly laid out in the MAO & MAOT rules. Meaning that if a contestant's disqualifying age isn't caught at the local or state level, MAO is under no obligation to allow her to compete at the national level. These girls know how old they are & if they had concerns they should have contacted the MAO office. Secondly, what happened to Elizabeth is tragic, but there are procedures for that situation & they were followed. It can be said, with absolute certainty, that she did not win Miss FL. Finally, Amy wasn't given an "exception," because there wasn't one to give. She made top 5 on her own, & no one can say for sure that she wouldn't have won if she had been ranked against the correct top 5, & a re-do of the top 5 ballot 2 months later doesn't invalidate that statement. What matters are the judges' opinions from THAT NIGHT, & since no one can say for certain what those would have been with the correct top 5, the results from the pageant are the most valid. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 07:52:33 07/24/14 Thu

Subject: How can this be?
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 12:14:04 07/23/14 Wed If both the actual winner and the original winner of Nevada OT can compete, why can't both Miss Floridas compete? Why are they letting the name NVOT compete when she wasn't the actual winner? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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I don't think the Fechtels threatened to sue. They represented themselves with complete grace and class. I truly hope she comes back to compete. I was so impressed. (NT) -- No name, 12:23:54 07/23/14 Wed She WAS the winner. She was the pick of the 5 the judges were given to vote for. She won the crown. No tabulation error. Now that it's come out that some of the top 5 were eliminated, if in fact that's true, there is no way to undo this short of holding another pageant. To take her crown would be completely different than taking Miss FL's crown. Those of you who don't see the differences between the two are either way too closely involved to be objective or have serious problems with logic and reasoning (NT) -- A New Englander, and the mod can verify, 13:51:13 07/23/14 Wed I agree that, if what is reported to be true is TRUE, it isn't fair to take this girl's crown. IF--and that's a big IF--girls weren't included in the top 5 who should have been, that is the fault of the director/auditor/pageant staff---not the winner. Whatever happened, this is a big black ugly mark on MAO. And somebody better fix it. (NT) -- No name, 13:55:17 07/23/14 Wed The only reason Miss Florida is being mentioned is because you keep saying, "this is not the girls' fault, therefore they should keep their crowns." It was not Miss Florida's fault either. Yes, different circumstances, but is it any more fair for Miss FL to pay for someone else's mistake as it is for the Misses NV? We don't know if Miss NV actually "won the crown" because the true top five was never submitted. What a mess. (NT) -- No name, 14:05:39 07/23/14 Wed That's exactly right, we don't know. What we do know is that Elizabeth didn't win Miss FL. We don't know who the rightful winner of Miss NV would have been, but what we do know is that Amy Smith was chosen by the judges of the 5 they had to choose from (NT) -- No name, 14:13:10 07/23/14 Wed While this is not the girls' fault, either NV or FL, neither contestant should be allowed to participate. That is the only way real change will take place in the system. There must be consequences for actions. If the directors or those hired as tabulators make mistakes, someone must pay. Also, these franchises, as well as DE, must be seriously investigated by the MAO. (NT) -- No name, 14:21:49 07/23/14 Wed So your solution is to punish the girls for something that isn't their fault? LOL, good luck with that (NT) -- No name, 14:36:12 07/23/14 Wed They why can't other states send more than one representative? I'm sure other states could say there was misrepresentation, fraud, rigging, whatever you want to call it. I'm just troubled by them being allowed to send two girls. We don't really know who truly won. That is the young woman who is being punished. (NT) -- No name, 18:23:48 07/23/14 Wed But you are punishing the girls that way....it isn't their fault. If anything, if it turns out there were "misrepresentations" on the part of pageant staff, then they need to be prosecuted for committing fraud while running a nonprofit. (NT) -- No name, 14:39:06 07/23/14 Wed Yup. If you deny the girls the chance to compete at nationals, you open yourself up to a HUGE lawsuit toward the MAO in general, not just the state committee, especially from the rightful winner and in FL, the rightful winner was revealed (NT) -- No name, 14:55:57 07/23/14 Wed I think they're opening themselves up to a lawsuit from the whole top 5. At this rate they might as well send the whole top 5. (NT) -- No name, 18:43:40 07/23/14 Wed I agree all should get to go. Even though most probably couldn't at this point. (NT) -- No name, 23:50:13 07/23/14 Wed I was being mostly facetious with that comment but it really would have been the only fair thing. If they'd had the time they should have taken the top 5 and had them compete in a mini pageant with all new judges. (NT) -- No name, 00:31:06 07/24/14 Thu

Subject: Miss Nevada and OT
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 21:22:28 07/22/14 Tue Just a warning to everyone, This Nevada mess is going to unfold soon. The whole board of directors no longer exists and both pageants are under investigation. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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I believe that is what we are all waiting on, do you have any new information to shed more light on the situation? (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 21:35:53 07/22/14 Tue All I can say right now is that the entire smith family should be banned from the MAO, just like the entire board of directors. (NT) -- No name, 22:08:43 07/22/14 Tue Okay, well I'm sure we would all appreciate the facts that lead to you forming that opinion, if you have personal, first hand knowledge of the situation. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 22:19:53 07/22/14 Tue Wow... I'm interested. (NT) -- No name, 23:16:39 07/22/14 Tue Smiths -- No name, 23:14:07 07/22/14 Tue What makes you say that apparently the Smiths can "buy out" Miss America? Nothing is very apparent to the rest of us about this situation, other than the fact that there was a tweet saying there would be two MNVOT that was deleted less than and hour later. And I'm pretty sure the Smith Sisters have not been declared MA and MAOT in the past few minutes, so how have they bought Miss America? Please explain, because the rest of us want to be in the loop! (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 23:59:12 07/22/14 Tue I think the op was referring to the fact that Amy will get to keep her title because of the Smiths threatening to sue. (NT) -- No name, 00:04:05 07/23/14 Wed Thank you for clarifying! But it also may be that they have a strong legal case against MAOT if they take her title or MAOT may have never intended to take it at all. There is no confirmation or real evidence that the Smith's did anything wrong, and if that's the case they have every right to fight MA or MAOT taking their titles. (NT) -- No name, 00:24:45 07/23/14 Wed If doing nothing wrong was a factor, then Miss Florida should have been able to keep her title as well. Or maybe if she had threatened to sue, just add a second Miss Florida and send both of them to AC, right? (NT) -- No name, 03:58:29 07/23/14 Wed The argument here is that there was no tabulation error, Amy was ranked 1st out of the 5 the judges were given. In Florida a judge changed his placement of two girls but the mark he made to indicate that was unreadable, causing a tabulation error. Those are two very different arguments legally speaking, there is no way to say for sure that Amy didn't make the top five on her own, the ED could have been telling the truth that Haleyann did not file her paperwork correctly and the ED could have been let go for being disorganized and not catching paperwork issues before the pageant. Also the amount of time in between is probably playing a factor. The Florida incident was resolved within a few days, Miss Nevada was a couple of months ago. I would be fighting for that crown too if I had already spent all that time and money preparing and it's been 2 months since the state pageant. I'm just going to say that starting all of this one week before MAOT looks fishy to me. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 07:27:30 07/23/14 Wed I was actually referring to the rationale that the Smiths did nothing wrong, so they should keep their crowns or have the right to sue. Miss Florida did nothing wrong either. She was embarrassed and humiliated in the national media. She had already made arrangements and changes in her life to assume the crown for a year. If anyone has a right to sue, it's her,. But she accepted this situation graciously and with class. (NT) -- No name, 08:04:32 07/23/14 Wed I absolutely agree with you! She was the picture of a Lady through her ordeal, and I pray that she will be able to return to Florida next year and win the title outright. I was only trying to point out the differences between the Nevada and Florida incidents that could potentially be giving the Smith girls a more valid argument for keeping their titles. It's not fair, in such similar situations, that the law could be on one's side and not the other but that's just how it happens sometimes. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 09:05:13 07/23/14 Wed I just hope that these incidents might be a catalyst for some change, regulations, checks and balances, education - whatever - within the entire organization, to insure that it doesn't ever have the chance to happen again. It's just unthinkable that any of these girls and their families have to deal with this sort of thing. (NT) -- No name, 09:13:46 07/23/14 Wed This is clearly a bitter mom pissed off at the ED and venting at a family who did nothing wrong as far as we know (NT) -- No name, 03:43:18 07/23/14 Wed Please the pissed off Mother is the Smith's. Ellie we know it's you and your Mother that keep saying yiu were not involved. Are yiu not under a current gag order? You know yiur IP Address can be sent to the Lawyers and show you are violating the gag order.... (NT) -- No name, 07:13:13 07/23/14 Wed KNOCK IT OFF! That is not Ellie who posted that. The IP is from clear across the country. Now quit harassing and slandering her (NT) -- Moderator, 13:55:01 07/23/14 Wed Someone needs to leak this info to the media! (NT) -- No name, 10:37:35 07/23/14 Wed Media how? -- No name, 10:48:11 07/23/14 Wed Anyone with info needs to get in contact with a news source. (NT) -- No name, 11:14:04 07/23/14 Wed It seems that anybody who leaks info to media does not care one bit about the national reputation of MAO. Please don't. (NT) -- No name, 14:37:01 07/23/14 Wed Oh please, MAO has no reputation at this point...we are the laughing stock of the pageant world and those on the outside are howling with glee that this "stupid pageant" is being shown as what they've claimed all along. The USA boards are loving this. As far as bringing in the media, that is the only way Sam and companty will be forced into addressing this. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war. (NT) -- No name, 14:42:10 07/23/14 Wed Or maybe they do care about the reputation because Nevada was a fixed pageant and all those girls who put money into that pageant and worked their butts off to win and they never had a chance... Mao is supposed to be fair and they should be making sure to correct any corruption and not covering it up due to a family who threatens to sue for buying their titles!!! Think about all those girls who wanted a fair chance not about Mao reputation! (NT) -- No name, 14:59:17 07/23/14 Wed I think this is not the only state where the result was fixed. (NT) -- No name, 18:25:01 07/23/14 Wed All someone has to do is go to tmz.com and link to this board (NT) -- No name, 14:54:01 07/23/14 Wed No offense, but this type of news is not of interest to most outside of the pageant world. (NT) -- The news won't be interested., 18:52:01 07/23/14 Wed The Miss Deleware incident made the news and so did Miss Florida. (NT) -- No name, 19:08:58 07/23/14 Wed The first Nevada prelim for 2015 is next month. Wonder if it and others will be held as planned? With no NV web site how will contestants know what's going on with prelims? Nevada doesn't have many to begin with. (NT) -- No name, 19:11:13 07/23/14 Wed There is NO PRELIM as Nevada does not have a FRANCHISE so there is NO Pageant. (NT) -- No name, 19:24:55 07/23/14 Wed Will there even be a Miss Nevada 2015 pageant? looking doubtful. this is such a huge mess (NT) -- get it together already, 20:20:38 07/23/14 Wed I don't think it'll take them that long, NY replaced their board fairly quickly. (NT) -- No name, 20:26:03 07/23/14 Wed I'm wondering what happens to all the money that is in the MNV and MNOT bank accounts. Does the new board get control over it? (NT) -- No name, 21:22:12 07/23/14 Wed That's another problem being investigated...what money??? (NT) -- No name, 22:05:55 07/23/14 Wed

Subject: Mallory named one of the 30 Under 30, changing the face of fitness
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 18:35:40 07/21/14 Mon http://www.fitocracy.com/knowledge/30-under-30-the-young-professionals-changing-the-face-of-fitness/ Way to go, Mallory! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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Miss her! (NT) -- No name, 00:21:53 07/22/14 Tue Obviously this is an old article; otherwise, why would they use this picture? Have they seen her lately? Did they see her 3 weeks after she won? Obviously not since she's got a blog about being fat and needing to lose weight since this photo was taken. (NT) -- confused, 15:43:26 07/23/14 Wed This article was written last week, and they talk specifically about her changing the perception of beauty as it pertains to body image AND fitness. She doesn't have to look like she did at Miss America to be "fit." (NT) -- No name, 15:48:47 07/23/14 Wed Then they should not show a picture from almost two years ago and show a picture of her today. (NT) -- old info, 19:19:57 07/23/14 Wed Word. (NT) -- No name, 15:50:21 07/23/14 Wed I think you're missing the point of her being included. The fact she struggles with her weight is how she's changed the face of fitness, she's a real girl trying to stay fit, not your typical fitness blogger with a perfect body. (NT) -- No name, 17:41:37 07/23/14 Wed

Subject: Miss Nevada investigation
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 08:19:04 07/22/14 Tue The Smith Sisters also did indeed know the rules and broke many of them. Sharing the same hotel room....Abuse of cell phones...etc. There will be much more to come on this stuff, believe me. Oh, and the MAO shouldn't be as worried about a lawsuit from the smith Sisters as they should about a class action lawsuit from the other parents. Do the right thing!! Take there Crowns. They did not win fairly. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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Miss Nevada investigation -- No name, 08:43:07 07/22/14 Tue You are so on message....also heard the Smith mother was backstage!!! corrupt? ya think? MAO/MAOT needs to do the right thing....crown the ONE true winner in each category... (NT) -- No name, 13:15:57 07/22/14 Tue You are sooo spot on!!! One winner only and reaudit the Miss as well :) This is positively criminal !! (NT) -- No name, 13:36:15 07/22/14 Tue The Smith Teen should have her title taken away. She was not the winner and should not be representing NV next week! (NT) -- No name, 14:25:52 07/22/14 Tue Miss Nevada investigation -- No name, 14:49:10 07/22/14 Tue I have no idea about any of these girls performance standards. However, I found it very off that all 3 former MNOT went 1-2-3 in the miss division. Again, I expected them to do well but we all know that it would be rare for all 3 with ties to the Ed would place exactly in that order and all 3 being fairly young for the miss division. (NT) -- I don't believe the girls had anything to do with it at all but clearly something has happened., 17:58:20 07/22/14 Tue Hilts was 08 and the ED came later so they have no ties. Maybe thats why she placed lowest of the 3 OTs? (NT) -- No name, 08:56:16 07/23/14 Wed Thanks for that clarification. (NT) -- No name, 12:25:49 07/23/14 Wed This all sounds like sour grapes to me. However, something must have happened for the older Smith girl to make that post (unless she was hacked). If she was not hacked then I think Miss NV Org went roque, made both teens winners and only then MAOT/MAO caught wind of it and is trying to sort it out. I really feel bad for MAO national org this year with all this CRAP! Reserving judgment on Nevada until I hear something official. For all we know the same poster or a handful could be posting eveything and it could all be sour grapes of a handful. (NT) -- No name, 15:05:29 07/22/14 Tue Miss Nevada investigation -- No name, 15:14:04 07/22/14 Tue Miss Nevada investigation -- No name, 19:27:56 07/22/14 Tue What rules did the Smith sisters break? (NT) -- No name, 00:27:30 07/23/14 Wed The real question -- No name, 08:44:09 07/23/14 Wed (NT) -- No name, 03:17:46 07/23/14 Wed

Subject: what's the latest with the NVOT saga?
Author: what a mess [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 12:22:23 07/22/14 Tue ... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]
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one is starting right about this one.... (NT) -- No name, 13:17:17 07/22/14 Tue Its in the Attorneys hands now... The Smiths and the Harts both now have Lawyers negociating with MAOT. (NT) -- No name, 19:26:42 07/22/14 Tue Can you please confirm how you know that for a fact? Just want to check sources to get as close to the truth as possible! (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 19:58:02 07/22/14 Tue FACT. The reason nothing has come out from MAOT is all parties are under a Gag Order. To those of you not in the know or from out of state. There are pages of documents proving The Smiths were in on it. (NT) -- No name, 07:19:47 07/23/14 Wed If they are under a gag order, then how do you know about any of it? Just asking. (NT) -- MissGA Fan, 07:30:28 07/23/14 Wed Boy that's pretty obvious, we called and they said we can no longer talk about this. all parties have agreed to a gag order until this is resolved and a joint statement is released from all parties. (NT) -- NV, 12:09:05 07/23/14 Wed

Subject: Miss DCOT, Cydney Taylor Hill is raising money to help offset the costs of traveling to Orlando to compete. Her mother has been diagnosed with breast cancer for the third time and any little bit of money would be greatly appreciated. To donate or read her story, visit this link: http://www.gofundme.com/DCOutstandingTeen (NT)
Author: No name [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 08:10:18 07/23/14 Wed [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

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