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- Is the motor in production -- BobP, 08:48:45 09/01/13 Sun [4]
Hi,
I'm just back from the 2013 LAA Sywell rally. In previous years there has always been a prototype D-Motor lurking somewhere - even though the design had not reached production status. But this year nothing (unless I missed it)
I thought the engine was now in production? and that the UK agent would therefore be launching UK sales with a big fanfare?
Also I thought some of the owners of the new production engines would now have their machines flying and would have glowing reports of enhanced performance, reduced consumption and having to add kilos of ballast up front to compensate for the engines low weight - but all I hear is silence.
Any updates? What's happening?
Cheers
Bob
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Replies:
- Contradictory Reports -- tony french, 06:13:25 07/15/13 Mon [2]
Correction Bob,
I was confused between two developments, i.e. the original 80hp motor and the upgraded 95hp motor which seemed contradictory when it appeared to be the same motor.
Yes, the manufacturers seem straightforward.
However it is high time some reputable, independent body did a thorough test of the engine for public consumption.
Tony
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- Test Reports -- tony french, 04:19:50 05/15/13 Wed [4]
Dear Fellow Hopefuls,
I see contradictory figures and speculation but no test reports by a competent authority e.g. a good UL magazine or LSA association.
Should we not request the manufacturers to obtain some independent reports, addressing all the questions raised about hp-revs-torque-powerband-efficiency etc ?
Tony
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Replies:
- D-Motor Enthusiasts -- Tony French, 07:16:37 05/14/13 Tue [1]
Dear D-Motor Enthusiasts,
Glad to find you. I am about to retire, learn to fly and acquire an amphibian to enjoy the 350 Fiji Islands where I come from, and maybe to circumnavigate the Australian and New Zealand coasts. I hope the D-motor takes off successfully, as I too, from my limited knowledge, see its design and specs as ideal. I hope to follow your adventures and experiences. Keep up the good work Tony
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- Sale of the D-Motor in the USA, etc. -- Ken Yoskowitz, 23:48:54 02/08/13 Fri [1]
I have been in recent contact with Alain DeJager, the originator of the D-Motor and have been told the following: He has a contract with Chris Bailey of Renegade LSA as the master distributor for D-Motor in the USA. Bailey's responsibility to D-Motor is to get ASTM certification for the engine and to develop a sub-dealer network within the US. Bailey told me, a couple of months ago, that he doesn't intend to develop any FWF kits and expects builders to do this on their own. I am building an RV12 and have mentioned to both Bailey and DeJager that their are now 219 RV12's flying and almost all are powered by a Rotax 912 installed with a FWF kit developed by Van's Aircraft and sold for a total(engine and FWF pieces including a prop) of $28,000. These 219 have been built in the 4 years the 12 has been available in kits. Who knows how many more are being built now. The point is that most of the 219 builders put up $28,000 because they had the money, didn't want/know how to develop a FWF installation for themselves and last, wanted to register their plane as an E-LSA. E-LSA is a category that only the RV12 can be registered in and it has some special benefits to the builder. The RV12 can also be registered as an E-AB and with that comes all the benefits of the Amateur Built category - like putting a D-Motor in an RV-12 or other LSA kits.
I think the D-Motor is, potentially, the best engine for LSA's that is on the market. Time will tell. I'm hesitant to buy now. I believe DeJager is very serious about putting a quality product on the market. We would, as buyers now, be field testing the engine, however. I don't know how the new, 4 cyl., 95hp version, with longer stroke and possibly other modifications, will change the reliability of the engine and how any issues the engine may have will be addressed in the U.S.
You may know the 4 cyl motor has a redundant engine control unit(2 ecu's in one box). DeJager says he will also have a redundant fuel injection system available soon. No price announced yet. He will not be supplying a water coolant radiator with the purchase price. It will be up to us to source the radiator and decide where and how to mount it. I have asked DeJager to recommend a specific radiator and prop.
So, what to do? Here we have an amazing engine that, at the very least, is a brilliant design but few of us may want to do the groundwork to install the engine. This could be looked at as a business opportunity for one or more of us to develop FWF packages for the most popular LSA kits? What are your thoughts?
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- engine report -- ray, 02:41:09 01/30/13 Wed [3]
Any reports or updates on the 4 or 6cyl engines.
Would still like to install the 6cyl engine to my Q2.
This forum looks very quiet???????
Ray
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Replies:
- production time -- johno (happy), 03:15:58 10/29/12 Mon [5]
Hi
does any body know when this engine will be in production.
I`m building a Quickie Q2, need an engine.
Johno
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Replies:
- Head design -- Neville Cameron, 18:27:37 10/04/12 Thu [2]
I am very impressed by this motor, it is an obvious design, with great advantages. I am curious as an old person, I have worked on side valves before, and I am surprised by how shallow the head is, there appears to be little room for a combustion chamber, or is it let in to the cylinder block somehow? The efficiency of side valve motors combined with their low rpm power makes them ideal for aircraft, having the valves unable to drop into the bore in the event of failure is also good. We are all aware of the Pietenpol Model A engine, this seems to be a space age improvement.
I would like to know the price. and I would like to see the head design.
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Replies:
- Bigger and Better - but still not in production -- Bob P, 02:41:52 06/22/12 Fri [3]
Further to the recent news snippet in the LAA magazine, I've been asking around and understand that the 80hp then 85hp LF26 engine has morphed into the LF27 (longer stroke) generating (at least) 90hp. The engine is still lighter than the 4 cylinder Jab engine (now specd at producing only 80hp). I guess the D-Motor may need a bigger (heavier) battery than the Jab to support the injection system if the alternator fails, if so the real advantage is just the extra power.
Sadly (for me) the LF27 still doesn't include a bed mount option (unlike Jabiru, Rotax or UL engines), so it can't be used as a replacement for my Rotax 582 engine.
D-Motor are aware of the increased sales potential of a (same weight, direct drive, 4 stroke) replacement for the Rotax 2 strokes (just by adding a couple of mounting bosses at the front of the engine). So it seems (to me) that either their designers have some "blind spots" - or perhaps D-Motor are targetting sales directly at aircraft manufacturers rather than at the replacement engine market.
If it were my decision, for the want of a couple of bosses on the crankcase I'd keep my options open - especially in these uncertain times.
Bob P
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- Has this forum died? -- John Evans, 14:46:21 05/02/12 Wed [3]
I had hoped this forum would allow me to observe progress as people started to gain experience with this extremely promising engine. Can anyone tell me what is happening?
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Replies:
- D-Motor -- Rob Freestone, 11:22:49 09/19/11 Mon [3]
Like you Bob, I've been watching this engine with a great deal of interest.
It does all seem too good to be true, but it could well be the perfect engine for me. I also fly an Aero Designs Pulsar in the UK. I would be very keen to hear of your experiences with the engine, perhaps I could pop up to Stoke Golding for a natter.
Hungry for any news on progress,have you received your engine yet?
Best regards Rob
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Replies:
- D-Motor LF26 -- Kess Blaswich, 13:28:02 11/20/11 Sun [1]
We have just learned about this engine. It looks like a fantastic engine to try as a pusher on Titan and Earthstar aircraft. The Jabiru 2200 and 3300 are used on the Titans, and HKS700E and the turbo versions are used on the Earthstars. So far we have not found any availablility in the U.S., and particulary here on the west coast. We have a good gang of experimental pilots and builders here, and would love to see somebody install this engine, if we can found out how to get one. It might even fly to Oshkosh!
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- Oshkosh supprise -- Bob Widmer, 13:13:09 08/08/11 Mon [1]
Walking down the Light Sport lane I spy this "A" frame thing with a scale and an engine hanging from it with two mufflers and a radiator. I was blown away seeing a flathead AC engine. The man at the site had a sign that stated it weighed 103 pounds. <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://eaa.org/news/2010/images/dmotor2.jpgI">http://eaa.org/news/2010/images/dmotor2.jpgI</a> said "what"? He said grab it here and pick it up, which I did. He said that the additional oil tank, coolant, and oil made for about the same weight as a fully equipped Rotax 582 with starter, gearbox, coolant, muffler, and only worth 65 horsepower.
What a novel idea. I fly an Easy Rizer with a Briggs & Stratton flathead twin. It has served my well for about 20 years of occasional flying <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8xF-myj0gM"">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8xF-myj0gM"</a>
Now, with fuel injection, electronic ignition, and being liquid cooled, This may be the engine I am looking for for two reasons. The first is that I want a light, strong liquid cooled engine for a future Highlander project. Second is that I have been looking for a suitable engine for a Rans S-9 or S-10 that can be used for aerobatics. I have been using a Rotax 670 snowmobile engine which packs a lot of horsepower, but it is not reliable enough for me to feel comfortable making a long flight. The D-Motor is a dry sump and can easily be made to operate upside down more simply than a Rotax 912S.
The guy said the price is $15,000 which seems a little high if they want to cut deeply into the Rotax market. Nothing like a cheaper, better mousetrap. At $12,000 they won't be able to make them fast enough. Rotax makes a fine engine, but is not only too expensive, it is also complicated compared to the new D-Motor.
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- Interesting post from LAA forum -- Nick, 10:33:41 08/07/11 Sun [1]
Trevor Lyons
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 87
Location: Staffordshire
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:51 am
Post subject: The motor we've all been waiting for!
I first saw the flat-four side-valve D-motor displayed at Sywell in 2010 and was immediately fascinated by its dinky size and low weight.
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://d-motor1.vpweb.be/Product---Produit.html">http://d-motor1.vpweb.be/Product---Produit.html</a>
Since then, I have become even more impressed: I think that it shows a brilliance of approach and real "thinking outside the box".
Today, people regard side-valves as an archaic pre-war device fit only for lawn-mowers. This is because, to produce more power, engines need to turn faster; and since the volumetric efficiency (or "breathing") of a side-valve engine is poor at high revs, designers of modern engines turned to OHV & OHC valve-gear. However, since a direct-drive aero-engine produces its power at very low revs, it has no need for overhead valves. The boffins at D-Motor are to be praised for ignoring convention and reviving the "humble" side-valve.
In addition to its obvious simplicity, cheapness, compactness and lightness, the side-valve has other benefits for an aero-engine. The combustion chamber design precludes valve-overlap; and the D-Motor makes a virtue of this necessity by providing efficient combustion at low rpm as fresh fuel cannot disappear unburnt down the exhaust. Also, while a side-valve engine becomes inefficient at high rpm, the valve gear (with its stubby tappets and lack of pushrods & rocker arms) can cope easily with high engine speeds. And whereas a dropped valve is catastrophic in an ohv engine (because the valve will almost certainly hit the piston and perhaps cause seizure), valve failure is of minor consequence in a side-valve engine, which could still chug along on its remaining cylinders back to the safety of an airfield.
The flat-four D-motor will be ideal for microlights and VLAs; but I see that D-Motor are also working (with the help of government funding) on a flat-six version.
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://d-motor1.vpweb.be/Recent-information.html">http://d-motor1.vpweb.be/Recent-information.html</a>
As with the modular Jabiru range, it is very easy to make a 6 out of a 4, since almost all that is needed is a longer crankshaft and crankcase.
It seems to me that the proposed flat-six D-motor may well be the engine that sweeps the board.
The Jabiru 2200 weighs 60kg and produces 85bhp; and its big brother, the 3300 weighs 81kg, and produces 120bhp, 107 continuous.
Clearly then, a flat-six need weigh only 33% more than a flat-four.
(And the Rotax 912 weighs 60kg and produces 80bhp; and its big brother, the turbo 914 weighs 78kg, and produces 115bhp, 100 continuous).
The liquid-cooled D-motor 4-cyl weighs 47kg and produces 80bhp; so (by analogy to the above figures) its big brother, the 6-cyl might weigh only 63kg and yet produce, say, 115bhp or more. In other words, a 6-cylinder D-Motor might weigh barely more than an R912 or J2200; yet would produce nearly 50% more power.
And this is with fuel injection, making carb-heat a thing of the past. If the price is right, it could be the motor we've all been waiting for!
Finally, I remain a fan of reduction gear, to enable the prop to operate slowly and efficiently. If the D-motor (and the Jabiru units too, come to that) were to have a simple 3:2 reduction gear, the prop could be full-size and could extract maximum power while turning less than 2,000 rpm. As it is, both the D-motor and the Jabiru engines must inevitably use small inefficient fast-spinning props; and even so, these engines will probably never be able to reach maximum output, which is 3,300 rpm in the Jabiru's case.
_________________
Trevor Lyons
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:02 pm
Post subject:
A side-valve motor has poor breathing at high rpm, but the simple valve gear offers no mechanical obstacle to high revs; so (in theory at least), provided the D-Motor's crankcase & internals are up to it, there seems no reason why it might not benefit in future from an induction boost via a turbocharger or supercharger. After, all the engine is so light to begin with, the extra weight of a charger would not signify much.
Just imagine: a flat-six turbocharged D-motor weighing perhaps 75kg and producing 140bhp!
_________________
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- D motor -- paul (curious), 14:21:40 06/03/11 Fri [1]
What about the valves? Is it an "L" head? About the Jab. Now there are liquid cooled heads for the Jab. It was a disapointment to read about the Jabiru problems. Thinking about a Lightning LS in the USA, but having second thoughts.
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- Final Engine Power Torque Curves -- Bob P, 02:49:00 03/28/11 Mon [2]
Hi everyone.
D-Motor have just issued a news update with "final" power/torque curves.
The link is
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.d-motor.eu/">http://www.d-motor.eu/</a>
Bob
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Replies:
- Welcome D-Motor Enthusiasts -- Bob P, 14:59:26 03/19/11 Sat [4]
Hi,
I've paid my deposit for one of the first 10 off production D-Motors.
Being a brand new engine design, I'm sure there will be a steep learning curve for both owners and the makers. I've therefore created this site to enable owners to exchange information and ideas, so that we can help each other to get our projects safely airborne as quickly as possible.
From experience with other forums, I think it is best that the forum is "owned" by D-Motor users rather than the engine manufacturer or its agents. Having said that, hopefully D-motor and its agents will offer expert input on the questions and discussions that are posted on this site. I hope this forum will foster a positive and mutually supportive relationship between makers, distributors and end users, and that this will contribute to the success of the engine - after all that is in everyone's interest.
Remember to bookmark this site so you can find it easily.
Best Regards
Bob Panther
Based in UK (Stoke Golding Airfield)
MK1 Pulsar (presently with Rotax 582 engine)
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