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Date Posted: 14:04:18 09/16/99 Thu
Author: Gabriel
Subject: Re: Faith + Works = Justification
In reply to: Rev. Sean 's message, "Re: Faith + Works = Justification" on 23:32:04 09/15/99 Wed

>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Gabriel,
> > > > > > > While is was in school the other day, a
> girl
> > > said
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > the Catholics believe in Justification
> > through
> > > > > faith
> > > > > > > alone. I thought they believed in
> > > Justificaiton
> > > > > > > through F + W. Please clarify.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Farewell,
> > > > > > > Ivan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, "Ivan"...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It all depends on the definition of faith.
> If a
> > > > > > Catholic takes faith to mean, "a trusting
> faith
> > > > > > working through charity through good works,"
> > then
> > > > > yes,
> > > > > > the Catholic can say that we are justified by
> > > this
> > > > > > faith. But this is not the classical Catholic
> > > > > > definition of faith, nor is it the faith that
> > is
> > > > most
> > > > > > often referred to in the Bible. The most
> > > important
> > > > > > thing to remember is that justification is a
> > > > process.
> > > > > > The Bible makes this very clear: "He that is
> > > just,
> > > > > let
> > > > > > him be justified still" (Rev 22:11). As it is
> > > > > written:
> > > > > > "Be not afraid to be justified even to death"
> > > > (Sirach
> > > > > > 18:22). We are justified by faith in God. And
> > > > later,
> > > > > > we may be justified further through a good
> work
> > > as
> > > > a
> > > > > > result of charity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many Protestants say that justification stops
> > at
> > > > > > faith, and that good works after conversion
> > > cannot
> > > > > > justify us, but only "sanctify" us. First of
> > all,
> > > > the
> > > > > > Bible makes it explicitly clear that we are
> > > > justified
> > > > > > by our good works. James tells us: "You see
> > then
> > > > that
> > > > > > a man is justified by works, and
> not
> > by
> > > > > > faith alone." (2:24). Paul commands
> > > Christians
> > > > to
> > > > > > "work out your own salvation in fear and
> > > > trembling."
> > > > > > He also makes it clear that good works are
> > > involved
> > > > > in
> > > > > > salvation when he notes that "God, 'who will
> > > render
> > > > > to
> > > > > > each one according to his deeds': eternal
> life
> > to
> > > > > > those who in doing good seek glory,
> > honor,
> > > > and
> > > > > > immortality..." And also: "It is not the
> > hearers
> > > of
> > > > > > the law that just in the sight of God, but
> the
> > > > doers
> > > > > > of the law will be justified." After all,
> > "...he
> > > > who
> > > > > > sows of the Spirit will of the Spirit reap
> > > > > everlasting
> > > > > > life. And let us not grow weary while
> doing
> > > > > > good, for in due season we shall reap
> > if
> > > we
> > > > > do
> > > > > > not lose heart." (Gal 6:8-9) And very
> > > > > > significantly: "Let them do good, that
> > > they
> > > > be
> > > > > > rich in good works, ready to give,
> > willing
> > > > to
> > > > > > share, storing up for themselves a good
> > > foundation
> > > > > for
> > > > > > the time to come, that they may hold on
> > > eternal
> > > > > > life." And perhaps the most powerful
> words
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > subject are those of Christ Himself in
> Matthew
> > > > > > 25:31-46, where Christ tells a parable about
> 2
> > > > groups
> > > > > > of people, the sheeps and the goats, who both
> > > > > > recognize Christ as "Lord". The goats are
> sent
> > to
> > > > > hell
> > > > > > because they did not do good for others. The
> > > sheeps
> > > > > > went to sternal life, because they had served
> > God
> > > > by
> > > > > > serving and doing good for others.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peace and prayer,
> > > > > > Gabriel
> > > > >
> > > > > Just to comment, would not having faith lead
> one
> > to
> > > > > perform good works on one's own? It seems to
> me
> > > that
> > > > > performing good works is inherent in living in
> > > faith
> > > > > of God.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, faith is the foundation of salvation. Our
> good
> > > > works stream out of our faith. But we are
> justified
> > > > before God by both faith and charity, not one or
> > the
> > > > other. They both work in unison to justify.
> > > >
> > > > Do not exalt the virtue of Faith above that of
> > > > Charity. Paul himself tells us that Charity is
> > > greater
> > > > than Faith (1 Cor 13:13).
> > > >
> > > > Peace and prayer,
> > > > Gabriel
> > >
> > > But faith leads to charity. Charity does not
> > > nessecarily lead to faith. Charity is only greater
> > > when it is based on faith, for such charity is an
> > > extension of that faith.
> >
> > The two are separated in 1 Cor 13:13. Charity without
> > faith is greater that faith without charity. That's
> > what the verse says-- you shouldn't try to distort
> it.
> > When the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to separate faith
> > and charity, and then exalt charity to a higher point
> > than faith, by God, I'll believe the Holy Spirit.
> >
> > We cannot have faith alone and expect to be saved. We
> > must have a faith that works through charity. This is
> > what the Lord our God says in the Bible, what is
> > taught in Tradition, and what is confirmed by way of
> > the Church. If you wish to say that faith alone
> > justifies a man, and that charity is just a result of
> > faith that does not justify, then you must contradict
> > God's Word in doing so.
> >
> > Peace and prayer,
> > Gabriel
>
> I did not say that charity was just a result of faith.
> I was saying that charity is not always done in the
> name of the Lord. Some people perform charity for
> other reasons, while some do it for the right reasons,
> but with little faith behind it. For a true believer,
> the two go hand in hand. Faith will create a desire
> for charity, and charity will reinforce the faith.

Ah. This I can I agree with. But I would say that "charity" in the name of another God is not true charity at all. In my definition, the only true theological charity is that that Christians have. I would add also that charity can increase a person's faith (it has increased my faith on numerous occasions).

Peace and prayer,
Gabriel

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