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Re: 2004 Tourney -- Van Lier, 09:25:14 04/09/03 Wed
>>The AE Whores will announce Binghamton has prostituted
>>itself for 2-3 years in May/June.
>>
>>The schools east of Hartford will receive a
>>Costco-Sized tub of Vaseline, courtesy of Chris
>>Monasch.
>>
>>Great facility, no fans... yippie!!!
>
>Actually, as I choke on my sandwich, great facility,
>great fans (trust me...you should have heard the crap
>they came up w/ when we were DIII), BUT AWFUL
>LOCATION. There is absolutely nothing to do in
>Binghamton...in the winter that is. ITHACA is the
>closest thing to a cool quaint town. This is an
>absolute nightmare. IT WILL BE PACKED....w/ BINGU
>fans. This is so freaking terrible. HEY LEE
>McELROY....get off your ass....BINGU is whipping
>ALBANY right now. STATE CAPITAL...central locale and
>NO MAAC tourney for another year. MAKE THE PUSH!
Tourney's got to go to Hartford or Albany.
Putting it somewhere like Bing, Orono, is basically saying to other schools' fans: We don't care if you show up or not.
Originally, I wasn't too concerned about Bing. But you can't even get there on a plane for a reasonable cost (unlike Delaware).
And driving?
Albany's doable from northern New England/Boston market, but freakin' Bing makes it a monster road trip.
Say it ain't so fellow AE followers.
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Re: 2004 Tourney -- animal, 09:45:57 04/09/03 Wed
>
>>>The AE Whores will announce Binghamton has
>prostituted
>>>itself for 2-3 years in May/June.
>>>
>>>The schools east of Hartford will receive a
>>>Costco-Sized tub of Vaseline, courtesy of Chris
>>>Monasch.
>>>
>>>Great facility, no fans... yippie!!!
>>
>>Actually, as I choke on my sandwich, great facility,
>>great fans (trust me...you should have heard the crap
>>they came up w/ when we were DIII), BUT AWFUL
>>LOCATION. There is absolutely nothing to do in
>>Binghamton...in the winter that is. ITHACA is the
>>closest thing to a cool quaint town. This is an
>>absolute nightmare. IT WILL BE PACKED....w/ BINGU
>>fans. This is so freaking terrible. HEY LEE
>>McELROY....get off your ass....BINGU is whipping
>>ALBANY right now. STATE CAPITAL...central locale and
>>NO MAAC tourney for another year. MAKE THE PUSH!
>
>Tourney's got to go to Hartford or Albany.
>
>Putting it somewhere like Bing, Orono, is basically
>saying to other schools' fans: We don't care if you
>show up or not.
>
>Originally, I wasn't too concerned about Bing. But you
>can't even get there on a plane for a reasonable cost
>(unlike Delaware).
>
>And driving?
>
>Albany's doable from northern New England/Boston
>market, but freakin' Bing makes it a monster road trip.
>
>Say it ain't so fellow AE followers.
It doesn't matter. Binghamton is so hell-bent on raising its profile they are throwing gobs of money Monasch's way so they can host the thing. I think Albany would be a great central location, but that makes too much sense.
Probably once UMBC joins the league they'll host it there too.
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Whores, that's all they are on High Street -- NU Hoop Fan, 14:01:31 04/09/03 Wed
The AD's are aware this is going to turn into a Delaware situation, but worse. At least with Delaware, there was a chance that fans from Drexel or Towson could make the relatively short drive.
Let's assume this year's semi finals were played next year in Binghamton. You'd have NU-BU in front of 5,000 empty seats, and Hartford-UVM in front of almost as many. Is that what Monasch wants the world to see on TV? I think not.
The league is saying, "show me the money," that's pure and simple. There's nothing else to say about it.
If the league had any balls, it would put it in a place like Hartford or even Manchester.
Manchester is within 3 hours of UNH, Maine, NU, BU, UVM, and perhaps even Hartford. That's 6 schools within a 3 hour radius. Hartford probably has the same number of schools within a 3 hour radius. I think that would be a more practical approach.
Pick sites where at least 50% of the schools are within a 3-4 hour radius on a regular basis. If now and then a SBU or a Binghamton wants to host, to give its fans a chance to see some good hoops, fine, do it every 3-4 years, but come on.
Open wide AE, Mr. Monasch has his pants down and is giving you the high hard one.
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Re: Whores, that's all they are on High Street -- mainejeff, 16:06:34 04/09/03 Wed
Whores are smarter than the AE brass though. Manchester, Portland, Albany, Hartford, and even Burlington (if they had a facility) would all make nice host cities.
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Re: Whores, that's all they are on High Street -- Van Lier, 17:09:51 04/09/03 Wed
>The AD's are aware this is going to turn into a
>Delaware situation, but worse. At least with
>Delaware, there was a chance that fans from Drexel or
>Towson could make the relatively short drive.
>
But at least with Delaware, there was a good chance of finding a decent airfare to Philly or Baltimore.
If the thing is stuck in Binghamton for any amount of time, it'll go the way of Jimmy Hoffa or, as Bobby Murcer once said of Candlestick Park (paraphrasing here), "I think Patty Hearst is in the Binghamton arena, no one ever goes there."
It's got to be Hartford or Albany. Or Manchester. Come on AE office, don't let us down for the 12,436th time.
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Get a grip boys -- Bingo Booster, 19:49:11 04/09/03 Wed
Enough of the sour grapes everyone. If in fact, the tournament is coming to Binghamton (the bids aren't even on the table for vote yet!!), than there is a simple rationale: The AD's voted that Binghamton would be the best place. PERIOD. This Monasch-bashing has gotten a bit silly. What you call prostition I call smart business. If Binghamton can guarantee the league XX dollars and put on a quality tournament, Monasch is a fool for not endorsing it. Keep in mind, this board was filled with people complaining about the lack of confern for fans at the Boston site. You can't have it both ways. Monasch is looking at a school that CLEARLY puts basketball as priority #1, and draws fans. Yes, it will be a drive. That's what happens when membership is spread out so much. Perhaps Maine and Vermont can suck it up for a change - especially given that they don't want the tournament themselves (you'd be very surprised at which schools don't even submit a bid!!).
I continue to read about the almost paranoid complaining members of the "old guard" have toward the new and energetic schools. Get with it. Without the SUNYS, there would be no AE right now. Binghamton, Stony Brook and to a lesser degree, Albany, all have a great interest in raising their programs to the highest level possible. These schools want everything, they would kill to win AE titles, want to host tournaments, and are soaking up everything at the D-I level. And in sharp contrast, many of the "old guard" simply don't give a damn any more. Pack your bags and be prepared to travel to a place that lives for the AE. Less than six hours from Boston and Long Island - all highway driving. Fill the tank and deal with it.
And to NU Hoop Fan, you're comments regarding fans is a bit humorous, given that NU draws approximately 50 fans to its home games. I've seen more people waiting for a bus in downtown Binghamton. We will draw fans (community and students) to each session, regardless of whether the Bearcats advance. The community is THAT excited about AE basketball. You won't find that anywhere else, especially not in a neutral location, as Maine Jeff has proposed. I also, as you can imagine, take exception to your assumption that Bing will not be in the semis. I can't help but wonder where you predicted we would finish this year...
Don't want to sound cocky, just getting tired of reading bitch sessions from people who don't know all the facts. Frankly, I thought Boston put on an acceptable championship, just like I think Binghamton and several other schools would. Nobody is "owed" the event just because they've been a member for 20 years. If they don't want it, they don't want it. And asking fans to drive eight hours to watch their favorite team try to advance to the NCAA tournament isn't too much. You know Binghamton will be sending a few buses of fans to whatever place gets it if we don't.
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Re: Get a grip boys -- Dane96- BINGO BOOSTER NEEDS TO GET HIS HEAD OUT OF THE SAND, 20:22:51 04/09/03 Wed
As a NY resident, who's family grew up in the S. Kortright NY area and girlfriend lived in VESTAL I can say this...BINGHAMTON IS IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE!! There is nothing to do. THis is a league...not one that makes that much money, and to ISOLATE 8 schools because one school has ONE REAL SPORT than that is plain wrong. It should be accesible to all, and by placing it in Binghamton it would not.
As for your comments about the SUNY's, UA was the first to put a new arena up (excluding Buffalo) followed immediately (w/in months) by SBU. UA and SBU had to spend $$$ to fly there squads everywhere (bussing to) so that we could compete as an independent. Moreover, SBU and UA are much larger broadbased research institutions, and while Binghamton is an amazing academic school, you are NOT A RESEARCH UNIVERSITY. That my friend costs alot of money. As for your teams...you have had great early success in a couple of sports. BUT SBU and UA have done it year in and year out at every level. So get off your high horse please.
THIS IS A BAD, actually terrible move for a league fraught w/ some serious concrete leadership. This is a very destabalizing decision that outright isolates the leagues fans from what should be our highlight tournament. And stop being an Monasch apologist. He is an awful commissioner. Notice how the NEC has a new tournament facility and is a much more broadbased advertised league. Hmmm...happened after his watch. He is godawful.
As for driving distance, you obviously have forgotten that lil' guy known as OLD MAN WINTER. The highway to BINGU is outright pathetic. One in, one out, unless you come from Scranton, and last i looked we have hmmm....ummm...no thats right ZERO PENNSYLVANIA SCHOOLS!
As for doing it right, ALBANY in a snowstorm that poured 20 inches on our field, had over 6000 fans attend our conference championship game a few years back and avgd...3900 for the DIII REGIONAL FINALS. For the final we had 4600. And that was for STOCKTON STATE, NYU, UA and Glassboro State (now ROWAN). Not exactly powerhouses. ANd I believe Siena had a good season that year. In any event, given the oppty...each school can host.
Get a reality check and realize BINGU has dumped a shitload of money into advertising and luring the tournament...FOR ONE DAMNED SPORT. Oh yeah...how bout Burlington who packs the fans in. Or Hartford that did a wonderful job w/ the womans tourney, or SBU who packed a stadium for football, and on, and on. Get over it pal. Other places get excited...granted maybe not in a large metro area like BEANTOWN where lines are drawn in the sand, but it goes on elsewhere.
SO YES...you do sound like a cocky guy, but worse off...you do so w/ a major lack of information. WERE YOU AT THE TOURNEY FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS. Have you seen your school reps up the tourney directors butts. WE ALL HAVE.
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Re: Get a grip boys -- NU Hoop Fan, 22:06:42 04/09/03 Wed
I'm agreeing 100% with Dane 96 here.
We all know the reasons why this thing didn't, and probably won't ever really work in Boston. It's a terrible shame, and really, there's nothing we in Boston can do about it. Boston's a front-runner, big-event city.
We sell out the Fleet in 22 minutes 10 months before the NCAA tournament comes when no one knows the teams that will be sent to Boston (that's over 50K tickets), but we can't get 3,000 people to the AE tournament.
As for saying the league has foresight for bringing the tourney to Binghamton, Dane is right..it's about the MONEY. I wasn't at the 2003 tournament, but at the 2002 tourney, the Binghamton folks were sucking up to ANYONE who was in the hospitality suite. The SID was talking to me and picking my brain about AE history, etc. and once he asked me who I was, and I told him, he casually walked away, said something to the othe Binghamton folks. One of the NU guys who was working the event said to me "he just told the Bing U guys they were wrong in thinking you worked for the league.."
It's been clear, Binghamton is a one sport school, basketball, and hey, if that's what they want to be, more power to them. If they want to be the Marquette of the AE, go right ahead.
If the league wants to suck Binghamton's ass and vice versa over some money, then, I hope both parties get what they want... they deserve each other.
Monasch can't lead his way out of a wet paper bag without a money trail. He can sit in his ivory tower on High Street, with a great view of the City and think he's doing a good job, but if the league voted on his contract today, he'd lose in a landslide.
As for other schools submitting bids, I know a couple schools didn't submit bids because they said it was a fait accompli that it was going to Binghamton. Why waste the time and effort when the Bearcats had a big check and a new arena?
As for Binghamton, I may go, but I'm going to have to figure out a cheap way to get to Richmond for the CAA tournament ;-)
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Nothing like a know-it-all -- BearcatFan, 10:15:19 04/10/03 Thu
The thing I love about this board is that you can say what ever you want ans say it as fact, when in reality it is not. First of all if anyone at BU or NU really cared about Basketball they could have put on a good event. NU actually did a credible job, but BU was pathetic. Both teams had legimate shots to win it all and yet no one in there backyard even showed up to watch.
Secondly, Binghamton's SID was not at the 2002 tournament, this is fact and do you really think that BingU's people would not know who is in the AE office, please!
Also, how is the league sucking Binghamton's ass..Please show me the facts not your damn rhetoric that you proclaim as fact. We are just another member of the league that does not have hockey and is willing to invest resources to build its program. Is that a bad thing?
PLus how can you have any idea what the University President's think about the AE administration. You are one fan who may have an inside track at one school, but you think you or anyone else on this board knows the pulse of the league presidents.
Also the AE is a basketball conference, right? IF you were the commissioner, wouldn't you be happy that one one its members so focus was on basketball? Hmmm makes sense to me.
In regards to the tournament, if we want it to be a good tournament, how can that work in locations where hockey is king and always will be.
my $0.02
>I'm agreeing 100% with Dane 96 here.
>
>We all know the reasons why this thing didn't, and
>probably won't ever really work in Boston. It's a
>terrible shame, and really, there's nothing we in
>Boston can do about it. Boston's a front-runner,
>big-event city.
>
>We sell out the Fleet in 22 minutes 10 months before
>the NCAA tournament comes when no one knows the teams
>that will be sent to Boston (that's over 50K tickets),
>but we can't get 3,000 people to the AE tournament.
>
>As for saying the league has foresight for bringing
>the tourney to Binghamton, Dane is right..it's about
>the MONEY. I wasn't at the 2003 tournament, but at
>the 2002 tourney, the Binghamton folks were sucking up
>to ANYONE who was in the hospitality suite. The SID
>was talking to me and picking my brain about AE
>history, etc. and once he asked me who I was, and I
>told him, he casually walked away, said something to
>the othe Binghamton folks. One of the NU guys who was
>working the event said to me "he just told the Bing U
>guys they were wrong in thinking you worked for the
>league.."
>
>It's been clear, Binghamton is a one sport school,
>basketball, and hey, if that's what they want to be,
>more power to them. If they want to be the Marquette
>of the AE, go right ahead.
>
>If the league wants to suck Binghamton's ass and vice
>versa over some money, then, I hope both parties get
>what they want... they deserve each other.
>
>Monasch can't lead his way out of a wet paper bag
>without a money trail. He can sit in his ivory tower
>on High Street, with a great view of the City and
>think he's doing a good job, but if the league voted
>on his contract today, he'd lose in a landslide.
>
>As for other schools submitting bids, I know a couple
>schools didn't submit bids because they said it was a
>fait accompli that it was going to Binghamton. Why
>waste the time and effort when the Bearcats had a big
>check and a new arena?
>
>As for Binghamton, I may go, but I'm going to have to
>figure out a cheap way to get to Richmond for the CAA
>tournament ;-)
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Re: Nothing like a know-it-all -- NU Hoop Fan, 11:05:20 04/10/03 Thu
The gentleman I spoke with at the 2002 AE Tournament had on a Binghamton sweater, told me he worked in Sports Information. You think that I'd question the guy? I know what he said and what I saw.
There were more Binghamton people swimming around the Hospitality Suite than any of the other schools, combined. They were asking questions of ANYONE there who looked like they were with a league school about facilities, etc. I know for a fact a couple of Bing U administrators even cornered the Arena manager about facilities, etc. If we want to talk fact... Hey, they wanted to show they were interested, i don't blame them at all for it, but as Dane96 indicated, and I concur, it's obvious the Binghamton folks have eyed the League Tournament since Day 1 - and have made no secrets about it.
The offer they made to host the tournament, from what I've heard, is something that no other school could match. He, if they want to buy it, go right ahead.
I don't know what the other league presidents feel about Monasch, today. But I know that in 2001 and last fall, there was some discontent in the ranks with the way the CAA-4 departure was handed.
If we want a good tournament, how can having it in a place like Binghamton be good for the league? If all Bing U fans are saying is that they'll draw 2,500 per sesson, that's gonna look AWFUL on TV in a 6,000 seat building. If we want a good tournament, we have it at higher seeded teams the whole way, that way the league maximizes its revenue potential, and gets fans interested. The league can still get the TV time and get the games on TV, just not from one location. Personally I'd rather see an NU-Maine first round game in Orono in front of 3,500 people than at WBA with 1,500-2,000 people. That's the league image I'd want.
The revenue stream would be greater, or equal than a one site location.
Students aren't going to Binghamton for the tournament. That's a fact. UVM's alumni travels well, as does Maine's, but you can't guarantee they're going to travel that distance.
Ask the coaches what they want. I know 2 schools want at least the first round on campus.
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Re: Nothing like a know-it-all -- animal, 16:05:43 04/10/03 Thu
>Ask the coaches what they want. I know 2 schools want
>at least the first round on campus.
NU Hoop Fan, I always thought the best way would be to have the first/second rounds (if we go back to 10 teams) on campus at higher seeds, then host the "Final Four" at the highest-remaining seed. That way, earning the top seed is rewarded, and some fans that wouldn't drive to anywhere other than their home gym would go. For instance, this year's first round would have probably had this for attendance:
BU-UNH: 1,000
UVM-Albany: 1,800-2,000
Hartford-Stony Brook: 1,200
Maine-Northeastern: 1,500
This way, the league gets increased revenue, and Monasch still gets his "event". Of course, this makes too much sense to ever happen.
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Re: Nothing like a know-it-all -- NU Hoop Fan, 20:23:23 04/10/03 Thu
Makes too much sense not to work. I like it a lot. Of course, this means it will never work.
Monasch wants a planned event. He's made it clear that's what he wants, and despite the approaches we may propose, it's not going to happen.
I've talked to some coaches who like this approach as it gives a team more to play for..all playoff games at home, if you're in the top 3, to say.
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Re: Nothing like a know-it-all -- BearcatFan, 23:08:33 04/10/03 Thu
Gee that interesting, I spoke with one administer today who said the bids aren't due until next week and Binghamton is still working on their's...Hmmmm! So how could anyone know what their bids is.... Fact
>The offer they made to host the tournament, from what
>I've heard, is something that no other school could
>match. He, if they want to buy it, go right ahead.
>
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Re: 2004 Tourney -- statefan, 15:06:49 04/09/03 Wed
>>>>The men's tournament is going to Binghamton, no
>doubt
>>>>in my mind.
>>>
>>>That will be a fun drive. At least the facility
>should
>>>be great.
>>
>>The AE Whores will announce Binghamton has prostituted
>>itself for 2-3 years in May/June.
>>
>>The schools east of Hartford will receive a
>>Costco-Sized tub of Vaseline, courtesy of Chris
>>Monasch.
>>
>>Great facility, no fans... yippie!!!
>
>Actually, as I choke on my sandwich, great facility,
>great fans (trust me...you should have heard the crap
>they came up w/ when we were DIII), BUT AWFUL
>LOCATION. There is absolutely nothing to do in
>Binghamton...in the winter that is. ITHACA is the
>closest thing to a cool quaint town. This is an
>absolute nightmare. IT WILL BE PACKED....w/ BINGU
>fans. This is so freaking terrible. HEY LEE
>McELROY....get off your ass....BINGU is whipping
>ALBANY right now. STATE CAPITAL...central locale and
>NO MAAC tourney for another year. MAKE THE PUSH!
To be honest, I don't actually care where the tourney is because virtually all possibilities are driveable from Albany, and I must say, the Binghamton drive is very easy; but I have two quick responses to the above comments (1) to Dane96, the 2004 as well as the 2006 MAAC tournament are in Albany. As much as it pains me to say it, when the MAAC tourney is in Albany, it is substantiaaly better than either of the last two years AE tourneys (which are the only ones I've ever attended). Additionally, I'm pretty sure the league office wants to see Albany show it can win a tourney game before it puts the tourney here. (2) to NU Hoop Fan, I must say I find the comment "great facility, no fans" amusing, because when I attended my first AE tourney at Northeastern in 2002, my reaction was lousy facility, no fans. My belief is that the followers of the teams with good chances to win will attend wherever it is. I've seen the Vermont fans travel pretty well the past two years. Since I think Northeastern will have a pretty good shot at the title next season, I have seen surprising low turnouts of their fans for the past two years, right in their own backyard, so I don't think there will be substantially less showing up for a potential trip to the title game.
The biggest concern I have with a tourney in Binhghamton, is if they have the tourney on a weekend while the school is on spring break.
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Re: 2004 Tourney -- Urban Barrister, 20:21:07 04/09/03 Wed
I agree with statefan. Bing was second only to Vermont this season in home attendance, and if you take out the one game where Vermont drew close to 4,000 (perhaps against BU?) I think Bing may have been first.
Assuming the tourney isn't scheduled during Spring Break (probably not a safe assumption to make yet, based on what folks think of Monasch), Bing should easily draw 2,000-2,500 to each tourney game even if no other team's fans make the trip. (It averaged as much for all home games after Spring Break this season.) And, if Bing does well again next season, I bet it comes close to selling out its own tourney games (6,000+ capacity in the new facility). If that happens, I would think the tourney would have to be viewed as one of the most successful in recent years, at least from an attendance perspective.
B/t/w, while we're on the subject, does anyone know what the draw was for this year's tourney? Not knowing the capacity at BU, it was hard to tell from watching the games on TV.
As for what Bing has to offer outside of the tourney, no arguments here -- other than a couple of bars, a crappy mall and a really large Wegmans supermarket, there isn't a whole lot to talk about.
>>>>>The men's tournament is going to Binghamton, no
>>doubt
>>>>>in my mind.
>>>>
>>>>That will be a fun drive. At least the facility
>>should
>>>>be great.
>>>
>>>The AE Whores will announce Binghamton has
>prostituted
>>>itself for 2-3 years in May/June.
>>>
>>>The schools east of Hartford will receive a
>>>Costco-Sized tub of Vaseline, courtesy of Chris
>>>Monasch.
>>>
>>>Great facility, no fans... yippie!!!
>>
>>Actually, as I choke on my sandwich, great facility,
>>great fans (trust me...you should have heard the crap
>>they came up w/ when we were DIII), BUT AWFUL
>>LOCATION. There is absolutely nothing to do in
>>Binghamton...in the winter that is. ITHACA is the
>>closest thing to a cool quaint town. This is an
>>absolute nightmare. IT WILL BE PACKED....w/ BINGU
>>fans. This is so freaking terrible. HEY LEE
>>McELROY....get off your ass....BINGU is whipping
>>ALBANY right now. STATE CAPITAL...central locale and
>>NO MAAC tourney for another year. MAKE THE PUSH!
>To be honest, I don't actually care where the tourney
>is because virtually all possibilities are driveable
>from Albany, and I must say, the Binghamton drive is
>very easy; but I have two quick responses to the above
>comments (1) to Dane96, the 2004 as well as the 2006
>MAAC tournament are in Albany. As much as it pains me
>to say it, when the MAAC tourney is in Albany, it is
>substantiaaly better than either of the last two years
>AE tourneys (which are the only ones I've ever
>attended). Additionally, I'm pretty sure the league
>office wants to see Albany show it can win a tourney
>game before it puts the tourney here. (2) to NU Hoop
>Fan, I must say I find the comment "great facility, no
>fans" amusing, because when I attended my first AE
>tourney at Northeastern in 2002, my reaction was lousy
>facility, no fans. My belief is that the followers of
>the teams with good chances to win will attend
>wherever it is. I've seen the Vermont fans travel
>pretty well the past two years. Since I think
>Northeastern will have a pretty good shot at the title
>next season, I have seen surprising low turnouts of
>their fans for the past two years, right in their own
>backyard, so I don't think there will be substantially
>less showing up for a potential trip to the title game.
> The biggest concern I have with a tourney in
>Binhghamton, is if they have the tourney on a weekend
>while the school is on spring break.
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Re: 2004 Tourney-State fan -- Dane96, 20:26:25 04/09/03 Wed
I thought they announced the MAAC was in Trenton for two years. My mistake. I was pretty sure i heard that.
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Re: 2004 Tourney -- Josh, 19:13:01 04/10/03 Thu
>
>Great facility, no fans... yippie!!!
No fans??? What games were you watching when they had their three televised games? Last 5 games there averaged over 2,000, and three were SRO!
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Re: 2004 Tourney -- NU Hoop Fan, 20:38:48 04/10/03 Thu
Read the string, brain surgeon, we were discussing the potential impact on the tournament if say, Maine had to play UNH in Binghamton in the semis and NU or BU played each other or Hartford in the other. You'd have no one there in a great facility.
It would be exacerbated if Bing U was on break. Remember, schools can't give freebies for the tournament, the league won't allow it, so if Bing U students want to go to the tourney, they have to pay for tickets, no student passes are allowed.
No one is denying Binghamton sold out West Gym for the games on TV. Let's call them "Made for TV Games."
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