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Subject: question for the mommies

Author:
spelvin
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Date Posted: 08:22:46 01/08/26 Thu
Author Host/IP: 72.78.201.247
Greetings, Anna, Ivana, and all!

I have a question which I have been wondering about:
What exactly are your feelings when you see your male offspring in their unadorned splendor?
I doubt very seriously that your metabolism escalates in an erotic frenzy, so I am speculating over what you feel instead.

I have a few guesses:

----You prefer seeing boys whom you already know.

If this hunch is right, your admiration is reserved not only for your own boys, but your friends’ boys, and your boys’ friends.

Bryan (2023, Voy 206801) wrote:

“Women have told me . . . they liked the fact that they were seeing particular boys they knew from the community. That was part of the attraction of the swim meets.”

It seems that drooling over the bodies of strangers is a male thing more than a female thing.
And that seems to hold true for males and females in general, whether homo, hetero, or pedo.

This gender difference created headaches for the founding editors of Playgirl Magazine.
If I understand correctly, the magazine was founded for the benefit for female heterosexuals.
The founding editors were men, so they assumed that women think like men.
Heterosexual men salivate over naked women, so they assumed that heterosexual women salivate over naked men.
So that’s what they showed.

It would be a simple matter if female heterosexuality were an exact flip-flop from male heterosexuality, but it’s not.
That’s why the editors got deluged with protests from the women subscribers.

The editors responded by discontinuing their beefcake pictures.
But there was just one problem:
By that time, they also attracted a readership of gay men.
Just as heterosexual men salivate over naked women, homosexual men salivate over naked men.
Whether the male readers were expected or not,
the editors didn't want to lose them.
That left the poor, distraught editorial staff seesawing back and forth, never able to make everybody happy (Greenfield 2013; Stiller 2016; Rettenmund 2017a).

----You think your boys look cute.

The Westermarck ([1894] 1922) effect keeps brothers and sisters from regarding each other as sexy,
but it apparently does little to keep older sisters from thinking that naked younger brothers look cute.

On the 223876 forum, we heard confessions from 16-year-old girl with an 11-year-old brother, a 15-year-old girl with a 13-year-old brother, and a 14-year-old girl with a 13-year-old brother.
All of those girls thought their younger brothers looked cute with no clothes on.

Apparently, mommies have similar feelings.
Tommy (2018, Voy 223876) was a spectator at nude swim meets where the boys were between the ages of 11 and 13.
He suspected that “the young boys being nude were considered as cute by parents.”

----You have sensual feelings.

Photographer Sally Mann (1992) shocked the world by publishing a book containing nude pictures of her own children.
She told a journalist (Woodward 1992), “I don't think of my children, and I don't think anyone else should think of them, with any sexual thoughts. I think childhood sexuality is an oxymoron.”
Instead, she prefers to describe her children as “sensual.”

Mann (2015) elsewhere wrote:

“I was gobsmacked by my babies: their meaty beauty and smell, the doughy smoothness of their skin, the pulsing crater of fontanel. I loved the whole sensual package with a ferocious intensity. Yes, it was a physical desire, a parental carnality, even a kind of primal parental eroticism, but to confuse it with what we call sexuality, interadult sexual relations, is a category error.”

I don’t know whether I see Mann’s children as sexual or sensual because I never could understand what those two words mean.
Can someone please help me?

----You see your boys’ nudity as a record of their physical development.

Jeff (2018, dead link) speaks of participating in YMCA family night and congregating with their mommies in the locker room afterward.
It sees that he wasn’t suspicious:

“I think the moms enjoyed the opportunity to see their boys naked. It wasn’t a perverted sort of thing. It was more just a matter of wanting to see how their boys were developing.”

Jack (2020, Voy 223876) wrote that his mother photographed him and his brother naked on their birthdays every year until the age of 15.
She made three copies of each photograph, which she placed in three albums, one for Jack, one for his brother, and one for herself.
Each boy received his album when he went to college.

Some mothers have been quite uninhibited in describing the growth of their sons’ genitals.
In 2005, Deborah wrote to delphiforums:

“I have watched my son swim nude for years and found it interesting observing his sexual development as he got older. I was fascinated watching his genitals grow to well above average proportions.”

In 2020, Janice wrote to Voy 206801:

“As an adult woman, I have seen many penises in my life, but by far the most fascinating was watching my son go through puberty and seeing him go from having one the size of a finger to fully grown. Watching the testicles enlarge and drop along with the growth of pubic hair was equally amazing.”

----You admire your boys for their potential to attract mates in the future.

Do a Google search on Admiration, a painting by the French artist William-Adolphe Bougereau (1825-1905).
There you see Venus and her friends gloating over Cupid’s corporeal beauty.
I’m not saying that Venus and Cupid are real people, but I am saying that the interchange which you see here is quite true to life.
You have surely seen adults gather around a child and say things like “She’s going to be a real charmer!” or “He’s going to have to beat them off with a stick!”

Most people agree that it is abnormal for adults to regard children as mates for themselves,
but here, we are talking about adults regarding children as mates for members of their own generation.
That drive is not only harmless, but at one time, it played a necessary function in our evolution.
We all know that the world is overpopulated already, but our inner brains don’t know that.

----You like to see the tables turned.

Why has there never been a woman President?
Why are most corporate CEO’s men?
Why do boys excel in athletics more than do girls?

These questions, and other questions like them, have no doubt bothered many women.
According to John (2020, Voy 223876), a retaliatory desire for “power and control” has caused “Moms or Aunts or Female authorities” to force boys to appear nude.

He added:

“Don’t get me wrong - they love seeing naked boys too.

“But that pleasure is magnified for many when they can force it upon the boy and increase his humiliation by displaying him to others, force him to keep his hands to his side and away from covering his penis, and ridicule his desire for modesty.

“This is about as close to rape as a female can inflict on a male.”

I hope that none of you will choose this option.

Greenfield, R. 2013. When 'Playgirl' readers demanded more full frontal. Atlantic (July 9).
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/when-playgirl-readers-demanded-more-full-frontal/313494/

Mann, S. 1992. Immediate family. New York: Aperture.

_____. 2015. Exposure. New York Times Magazine (April 19): 48-57. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/the-cost-of-sally-manns-exposure.html

Rettenmund, M. 2017a. A penis on every page: The rise and fall of Playgirl. Esquire (June 24). https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/a55592/playgirl-magazine-history/

Stiller, C. 2016. How did 'Playgirl' magazine go from feminist force to flaccid failure? Splinter (May 19). https://splinternews.com/how-did-playgirl-magazine-go-from-feminist-force-to-fla-1793856910

Westermarck, E. [1894] 1922. The history of human marriage. New York: Allerton, 2 vol.

Woodward, R. B. 1992. The disturbing photography of Sally Mann. New York Times Magazine (September 27): 28-34, 36, 52. https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/27/magazine/the-disturbing-photography-of-sally-mann.html

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>Greetings, Anna, Ivana, and all! > >I have a question which I have been wondering about: >What exactly are your feelings when you see your male >offspring in their unadorned splendor? >I doubt very seriously that your metabolism escalates >in an erotic frenzy, so I am speculating over what you >feel instead. > >I have a few guesses: > >----You prefer seeing boys whom you already know. > >If this hunch is right, your admiration is reserved >not only for your own boys, but your friends’ boys, >and your boys’ friends. > >Bryan (2023, Voy 206801) wrote: > >“Women have told me . . . they liked the fact that >they were seeing particular boys they knew from the >community. That was part of the attraction of the swim >meets.” > >It seems that drooling over the bodies of strangers is >a male thing more than a female thing. >And that seems to hold true for males and females in >general, whether homo, hetero, or pedo. > >This gender difference created headaches for the >founding editors of Playgirl Magazine. >If I understand correctly, the magazine was founded >for the benefit for female heterosexuals. >The founding editors were men, so they assumed that >women think like men. >Heterosexual men salivate over naked women, so they >assumed that heterosexual women salivate over naked >men. >So that’s what they showed. > >It would be a simple matter if female heterosexuality >were an exact flip-flop from male heterosexuality, but >it’s not. >That’s why the editors got deluged with protests >from the women subscribers. > >The editors responded by discontinuing their beefcake >pictures. >But there was just one problem: >By that time, they also attracted a readership of gay >men. >Just as heterosexual men salivate over naked women, >homosexual men salivate over naked men. >Whether the male readers were expected or not, >the editors didn't want to lose them. >That left the poor, distraught editorial staff >seesawing back and forth, never able to make everybody >happy (Greenfield 2013; Stiller 2016; Rettenmund >2017a). > >----You think your boys look cute. > >The Westermarck ([1894] 1922) effect keeps brothers >and sisters from regarding each other as sexy, >but it apparently does little to keep older sisters >from thinking that naked younger brothers look cute. > >On the 223876 forum, we heard confessions from >16-year-old girl with an 11-year-old brother, a >15-year-old girl with a 13-year-old brother, and a >14-year-old girl with a 13-year-old brother. >All of those girls thought their younger brothers >looked cute with no clothes on. > >Apparently, mommies have similar feelings. >Tommy (2018, Voy 223876) was a spectator at nude swim >meets where the boys were between the ages of 11 and >13. >He suspected that “the young boys being nude were >considered as cute by parents.” > >----You have sensual feelings. > >Photographer Sally Mann (1992) shocked the world by >publishing a book containing nude pictures of her own >children. >She told a journalist (Woodward 1992), “I don't >think of my children, and I don't think anyone else >should think of them, with any sexual thoughts. I >think childhood sexuality is an oxymoron.” >Instead, she prefers to describe her children as >“sensual.” > >Mann (2015) elsewhere wrote: > >“I was gobsmacked by my babies: their meaty beauty >and smell, the doughy smoothness of their skin, the >pulsing crater of fontanel. I loved the whole sensual >package with a ferocious intensity. Yes, it was a >physical desire, a parental carnality, even a kind of >primal parental eroticism, but to confuse it with what >we call sexuality, interadult sexual relations, is a >category error.” > >I don’t know whether I see Mann’s children as >sexual or sensual because I never could understand >what those two words mean. >Can someone please help me? > >----You see your boys’ nudity as a record of their >physical development. > >Jeff (2018, dead link) speaks of participating in YMCA >family night and congregating with their mommies in >the locker room afterward. >It sees that he wasn’t suspicious: > >“I think the moms enjoyed the opportunity to see >their boys naked. It wasn’t a perverted sort of >thing. It was more just a matter of wanting to see how >their boys were developing.” > >Jack (2020, Voy 223876) wrote that his mother >photographed him and his brother naked on their >birthdays every year until the age of 15. >She made three copies of each photograph, which she >placed in three albums, one for Jack, one for his >brother, and one for herself. >Each boy received his album when he went to college. > >Some mothers have been quite uninhibited in describing >the growth of their sons’ genitals. >In 2005, Deborah wrote to delphiforums: > >“I have watched my son swim nude for years and found >it interesting observing his sexual development as he >got older. I was fascinated watching his genitals grow >to well above average proportions.” > >In 2020, Janice wrote to Voy 206801: > >“As an adult woman, I have seen many penises in my >life, but by far the most fascinating was watching my >son go through puberty and seeing him go from having >one the size of a finger to fully grown. Watching the >testicles enlarge and drop along with the growth of >pubic hair was equally amazing.” > >----You admire your boys for their potential to >attract mates in the future. > >Do a Google search on Admiration, a painting by the >French artist William-Adolphe Bougereau (1825-1905). >There you see Venus and her friends gloating over >Cupid’s corporeal beauty. >I’m not saying that Venus and Cupid are real people, >but I am saying that the interchange which you see >here is quite true to life. >You have surely seen adults gather around a child and >say things like “She’s going to be a real >charmer!” or “He’s going to have to beat them >off with a stick!” > >Most people agree that it is abnormal for adults to >regard children as mates for themselves, >but here, we are talking about adults regarding >children as mates for members of their own generation. >That drive is not only harmless, but at one time, it >played a necessary function in our evolution. >We all know that the world is overpopulated already, >but our inner brains don’t know that. > >----You like to see the tables turned. > >Why has there never been a woman President? >Why are most corporate CEO’s men? >Why do boys excel in athletics more than do girls? > >These questions, and other questions like them, have >no doubt bothered many women. >According to John (2020, Voy 223876), a retaliatory >desire for “power and control” has caused “Moms >or Aunts or Female authorities” to force boys to >appear nude. > >He added: > >“Don’t get me wrong - they love seeing naked boys >too. > >“But that pleasure is magnified for many when they >can force it upon the boy and increase his humiliation >by displaying him to others, force him to keep his >hands to his side and away from covering his penis, >and ridicule his desire for modesty. > >“This is about as close to rape as a female can >inflict on a male.” > >I hope that none of you will choose this option. > >Greenfield, R. 2013. When 'Playgirl' readers demanded >more full frontal. Atlantic (July 9). >https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/wh >en-playgirl-readers-demanded-more-full-frontal/313494/ > >Mann, S. 1992. Immediate family. New York: Aperture. > >_____. 2015. Exposure. New York Times Magazine (April >19): 48-57. >https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/the-cost-of >-sally-manns-exposure.html > >Rettenmund, M. 2017a. A penis on every page: The rise >and fall of Playgirl. Esquire (June 24). >https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/a55592/playgirl-m >agazine-history/ > >Stiller, C. 2016. How did 'Playgirl' magazine go from >feminist force to flaccid failure? Splinter (May 19). >https://splinternews.com/how-did-playgirl-magazine-go-f >rom-feminist-force-to-fla-1793856910 > >Westermarck, E. [1894] 1922. The history of human >marriage. New York: Allerton, 2 vol. > >Woodward, R. B. 1992. The disturbing photography of >Sally Mann. New York Times Magazine (September 27): >28-34, 36, 52. >https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/27/magazine/the-disturb >ing-photography-of-sally-mann.html
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