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Subject: Re: gay??


Author:
Brenda
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Date Posted: 16:04:20 02/17/03 Mon
In reply to: moe 's message, "Re: gay??" on 05:17:56 02/06/03 Thu

JJ may be gay, bi, or straight (all though how many straight men hang out with drag queens?). I'm not sure how much that really matters. However, he is definitely queer or "queer-friendly", meaning he is very conscious of the lives of LGBTQ (lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender/queer) people, just as he is of any people who are considered "other" by the mainstream. I like his lyrics because he puts out his thoughts about the way world is and does is with intelligence & humor. And that's what is important to me!

BJ

>>>No. Maybe bi. (Not that it matters.)
>>JJ dated Graham's SISTER years ago.
>>he can sleep with sheep for all i care its the man
>the music

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: gay??


Author:
Peter
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Date Posted: 23:49:32 03/27/03 Thu

I find this exchange confusing because I have heard that the entire album Night and Day is a coming out album. It really makes sense from the lyrics of Another World through Real Men and ending with A Slow Song. I thought that Real Men was a very clear coming out song - "don't call me a faggot, not unless you are a friend." Am I missing something? I know he's been married to women but what about now?

PETER

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: gay??


Author:
MoreFun101
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Date Posted: 07:41:22 03/29/03 Sat

Joe Jackson in his book A CURE FOR GRAVITY discusses his curiosity about his sexuality back in his younger days, however, he never explored homosexuality and is completely hetro. He is aware of the perceptions of him and is always amused, according to his autobiography, that people make that assumption based on his gangly and possibly effeminate appearance.





>I find this exchange confusing because I have heard
>that the entire album Night and Day is a coming out
>album. It really makes sense from the lyrics of
>Another World through Real Men and ending with A Slow
>Song. I thought that Real Men was a very clear coming
>out song - "don't call me a faggot, not unless you are
>a friend." Am I missing something? I know he's been
>married to women but what about now?
>
>PETER

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: gay??


Author:
Jan
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Date Posted: 14:31:39 04/07/03 Mon

I think Peter's remark is interesting: I don't know about Joe's sexuality and agree with most contributors that it's not a very important issue. But on the other hand it is nevertheless interesting, because if you go beyond the music and start to really read the lyrics, it's obvious that at least half of them revolve around the way men and women can or can not live with each other (starting from "One more time" and ending as of now with "Bright grey"). So if we'd know about his sexuality, maybe we would start to see his songs in a slightly different light (neither "better" nor "worse", just different).

But is it really possible, that Night & Day is a coming out album?

The lyrics on Night & Day are very fascinating because some of them are rather complex, since they can be read in different ways, so that you have to interpret them your own. (I for one still think that "Chinatown" is a modern version of a certain Franz Kafka short story.) It never occured to me, that "Another World" could be a "coming-out"-song, but now that you mentioned it, it really seems to make some sense. At first, that is. I think, that if you look closer, you'll find, that this is not very probable. "I was so low, people almost made me give up trying, always said no ..." Now, where is the gay subtext? Or the "coming out"-subtext, for that matter? I admit, that the second part could be read as a coming-out-song. But to split the subject in two like that doesn't make much sense, does it? Especially if you consider that there are maybe hundreds of different ways to understand these words. Now Real Men is different, I agree, but again: To say that this song is really about "I am gay" - I don't know. To me, it's just a song about men and the strange ways in which they often behave. The part you quote - well, I guess you are really missing something and that is the "context". I think if you read the whole section you can hardly say, that it is about him at all. And "A slow song"? Now you lost me. I'm confused. Where is even the slightest bit of subtext in this one? "My friend"? "Slow song"? "Push right through"? Oh, come on ...

So to me, Night & Day doesn't seem much like a coming-out-album. If you want it to be (and you don't look to close), yes, then it might be. But then it could also be about - say - him becoming a reborn christian. Or a communist ("Don't you feel like trying something new?"). Come to think of it, Night & Day seems even more like an album about Joe becoming a communist than about him coming out. And let's not forget, he married about five years later - as far as I know a woman.

But what about now? I remember, when JJ won the grammy, some newapapers wrote that he was "openly" gay. Which I found disturbing, because I didn't know about him being gay and I listen to his music, even read his book and went to a lot of his concerts. I know, that most people concluded that he is gay because of his appearance as a drag queen on Night & Day II. But some men dress as women, some women dress as men - and yet are heterosexuell ... We all know, that Joe's other recurring theme is being a misfit. So I propose a different view of him posing as Dale de Vere (or whatever): He wrote one other song about misfits in New York, needed a drag queen, couldn't find one, that could sing it the way he wanted (as happened with "Happyland") and decided to sing it himself, dressed as drag queen. Seems to me as possible an explantion as a coming out at the age of fourtyfive.

So in the end we have to agree, that we simply don't and cannot know. The man keeps his sexuality a secret. (He even said something like that a few years ago in an interview. He wouldn't want to be thought of as a "gay" or "straight" artist.) This probably disturbs a lot of people. But as always, I think, in the end we should all thank him for it: Because this way he challenges us once more, to think out of the box. And - being myself rather straight - I really kind of love him for that.

Jan

>I find this exchange confusing because I have heard
>that the entire album Night and Day is a coming out
>album. It really makes sense from the lyrics of
>Another World through Real Men and ending with A Slow
>Song. I thought that Real Men was a very clear coming
>out song - "don't call me a faggot, not unless you are
>a friend." Am I missing something? I know he's been
>married to women but what about now?
>
>PETER

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