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Date Posted: 06:36
Author: knonymous - 17 April 2002
Subject: Re: Query for Ketch (and maybe others)
In reply to: Eponymous - 17 April 2002 's message, "Re: Query for Ketch (and maybe others)" on 06:35

I know what you mean eponymous. There are some who wonder if we are just finding new things about our nervous system in these experiences. These experiences I am sure can feel very divine, and they would, to us, naturally.

I kinda like the (appearingly) alternate view that western schools of self work are beginning to sound out more openly, those of Qaballah, the Golden Dawn and the Crowley offshoots, the serious ones. I haven't practiced any of it, but from reading the modern stuff of some of the sensible people, it is very down to earth in a self improvement way. They also (the good ones, I get the impression there are a lot of idiots lost in a "magickal" belief system too) preach extreme objectivity in the experiements. The experiences are held to be parts of oneself coming out, nothing more. They are to be had and left behind to get to the real self.

This is what I think the real message is supposed to be from the real teachers in those schools, but just like anything else, there are also other lesser shiny things to be attracted to. Good teachers, bad teachers, good students and bad ones.

Who knows which is true? I sure don't. How do you EVER know if anything is happening outside of yourself.

My mother, very sensible, not religious but kind, not even superstitious, had some very strange "paranormal" experiences as a child, with no conditioning through any stories or such beforehand. She doesn't understand them, but has left them behind. Visitations in the night by relatives whom she found out the next morning had died during the night. Pictures getting funny blotches which would come back after cleaning, before recieving news of the picture's subject's death. Another "group hallucination" of ball lightning rolling through the open front door, down a clear path and out the open back door, followed by the phone ringing with another death in the family.

No explanation, not even too much care, just weird.

Quantum physics has some startling and fascinating new theories which I think coincide with the Buddha's psychology and worldview. Science has realized that it is always a factor in the experiment, and more realistic objectivity can come about through that realization. They say that there is no one model that can define the universe yet, not even any of the sciences. The map is never the territory. I'm not sure if the Quantum physicist even think that that is possible or relevant anymore.

I think that it is key to break through our conditionings and conditioned reflexes to be able to see the nonverbal world again, to be IN reality instead of looking at it, to not be conditioned by what we know or who we think we are at any given moment. Not that I am doing ANY work on that right now, but I believe it's definitely nothing less than a truly healthy, great thing to start with.

Science and rationale can also be screens to hide behind, belief systems to be trapped in, just like mine of self soubt and procrastination.

peace out

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