Re: Let bygones be bygones_we are different now -- Mamusz' Restoration Forum

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Date Posted: 16:02:12 02/28/11 Mon
Author:

Mamusz
Subject: Re: Let bygones be bygones_we are different now
In reply to: Lois 's message, "Re: Let bygones be bygones_we are different now" on 12:10:29 02/28/11 Mon

>>>Am
>>>I the only one who finds the Peaceable church a
>farce?
>>> They have shown their true colors. Now I am
>supposed
>>>to believe it doesn't matter what their colors once
>>>were, and besides, they have nothing but kindness,
>>>love, and charity for us. Can a Leopard change its
>>>spots?
>>>
>>>I feel sorry for the people who have left the
>>>Restoration now being drawn like a moth to the
>flame.
>>>Trust is such a fragile thing. Once it is built, it
>>>takes just one time to destroy it. We are to say,
>"We
>>>can trust them now. They are different now. We
>>>shouldn't be bothered by what occurred in the past.
>>>They would never do that this time." So thinks
>>>Charlie Brown as he runs to kick that football with
>>>Lucy holding it. I repeat: Trust is such a fragile
>>>thing. Once you kick your purring cat, does he stand
>>>there and let you kick him again?
>>>
>>>Mamusz
>>>
>>
>>Mamusz,
>>
>>I absolutely agree with you. I think they should just
>>stop pretending.
>>
>>Lois
>>
>Mamusz,
>
>If c-not-of-c members are deliberately quiet about
>certain agendas of the Community of Christ, such as
>the promotion of homosexuality, then I must assume
>that for all intents and purposes they are completely
>on board with the program.
>
>Some of them argue that God is going to take things in
>hand and clean up the church. My opinion is that the
>Community of Christ has absolutely no part in God's
>scheme of things any longer, except to be the
>"pricks". (See Numbers 33:55)
>
>Members of the c-not-of-c are still trying to pretend
>that they still have a moral compass. But I don't see
>any of them sticking their necks out to proclaim
>righteousness. They think that Christ's love will hide
>all their sins.
>
>Lois
>
> >href="http://www.cofchrist.org/wc2002/sermons/Grant2002
>.asp">http://www.cofchrist.org/wc2002/sermons/Grant2002
>.asp
>Called to Discipleship: Coming Home in Search of the
>Path
>W. Grant McMurray 2002 World Conference Address April
>7, 2002
>
>�I am not in the habit of telling our delegates how
>they should vote, but I am about to make an exception.
>I request the delegates to this World Conference to
>table or refer all pending legislation on
>homosexuality so that we can avoid actions that will
>be divisive and shape a process by which a broader
>understanding and consensus can be built. I will ask
>the Standing High Council to participate with others
>in looking anew at this matter, seeking issues on
>which we can surely agree (God's love of all people,
>fidelity, the value of family, the sacredness of
>sexuality as part of creation) and shaping dialogue in
>areas where we do not agree (the blessing of same-sex
>relationships, standards for ordination, the
>interpretation and authority of scripture).
>
>In the meantime, I ask the Community of Christ to be
>willing to live with us on the boundary for a while.
>To do this means that we may not have a policy that
>guides every decision, but we will have to trust the
>Holy Spirit to accompany us in our choices. It means
>that some parts of the church may function differently
>from other parts of the church and there will be
>distinctions that are occasionally unsettling but
>representative of the diversity of our body, both in
>terms of viewpoints and cultures. We recognize that
>certain national governments have requirements that
>our local church leaders in those nations will need to
>respect and interpret in accordance with their own
>cultural understandings.
>
>Because of these many differences, our church stands
>in the midst of much ambiguity and inconsistency. We
>have a twenty-year-old statement from the Standing
>High Council that serves as official guidance, but has
>not been universally adhered to throughout the church.
>I will be totally honest and acknowledge that I have
>myself participated in situations where its provisions
>were not honored. I have been present in conferences
>where persons I knew to be in long-term, committed
>homosexual relationships were approved for priesthood
>in jurisdictions where their lifestyle was known and
>their ministry was accepted. The conflict within me
>was between lawgiver and pastor. To enforce the policy
>would have required me to intervene and prevent the
>ordination of someone whose call to ministry I could
>not deny. This I could not do. This I will not
>do.�

Called to Discipleship: Coming Home in Search of the Path
W. Grant McMurray 2002 World Conference Address April 7, 2002

�I am not in the habit of telling our delegates how they should vote, but I am about to make an exception. I request the delegates to this World Conference to table or refer all pending legislation on homosexuality so that we can avoid actions that will be divisive and shape a process by which a broader understanding and consensus can be built. I will ask the Standing High Council to participate with others in looking anew at this matter, seeking issues on which we can surely agree (God's love of all people, fidelity, the value of family, the sacredness of sexuality as part of creation) and shaping dialogue in areas where we do not agree ( (the blessing of same-sex relationships, standards for ordination, the interpretation and authority of scripture) .

In the meantime, I ask the Community of Christ to be willing to live with us on the boundary for a while. To do this means that we may not have a policy that guides every decision, but we will have to trust the Holy Spirit to accompany us in our choices. It means that some parts of the church may function differently from other parts of the church and there will be distinctions that are occasionally unsettling but representative of the diversity of our body, both in terms of viewpoints and cultures. We recognize that certain national governments have requirements that our local church leaders in those nations will need to respect and interpret in accordance with their own cultural understandings.

Because of these many differences, our church stands in the midst of much ambiguity and inconsistency. We have a twenty-year-old statement from the Standing High Council that serves as official guidance, but has not been universally adhered to throughout the church. I will be totally honest and acknowledge that I have myself participated in situations where its provisions were not honored. I have been present in conferences where persons I knew to be in long-term, committed homosexual relationships were approved for priesthood in jurisdictions where their lifestyle was known and their ministry was accepted. The conflict within me was between lawgiver and pastor. To enforce the policy would have required me to intervene and prevent the ordination of someone whose call to ministry I could not deny. This I could not do. This I will not do.�

My comments

The time is not right to discuss homosexuality now. It would divide the church. Let�s table it until we are able to convince the majority that homosexuality is like any other relationship and therefore should be recognized as an alternate lifestyle. It isn�t only other countries that are against homosexuality. There are plenty of people in this country who are against homosexuality.

We have a 20-year-old statement, but because I do not agree with it, I have totally disregarded it.

And then Grant was gone. And why is that? Even the pope doesn�t leave.

Mamusz

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Replies:

Re: Let bygones be bygones_we are different now -- Lois, 20:20:04 02/28/11 Mon
Re: Let bygones be bygones_we are different now -- George, 20:30:43 02/28/11 Mon