Re: Already determined the outcome? 2 -- Mamusz' Restoration Forum

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Date Posted: 21:09:30 04/04/11 Mon
Author: Lois
Subject: Re: Already determined the outcome? 2
In reply to: George 's message, "Re: Already determined the outcome? 2" on 20:21:37 04/04/11 Mon

>> >>href="http://www.cofchrist.org/usaconf/journey.asp">ht
>t
>>p://www.cofchrist.org/usaconf/journey.asp
>>Journeying Toward a USA National Conference
>>BY THE USA APOSTOLIC TEAM
>>
>>Q: Has church leadership already determined the
>>outcome on issues of same-gender marriage and
>>ordaining people in same-gender relationships?
>>
>>A: No, church leadership is committed to discernment
>>leading to the USA National Conference. This process
>>will include spiritual practices, dialogue, scripture
>>reflection, and study of credible resources that
>>provide multiple perspectives on human sexuality and
>>healthy, faithful, and committed relationships.
>>--------
>>
>>I don't believe that. Does anybody reading this
>>believe that? This has been in the works since at
>>least 1978, see Bill Russell's words below.
>>------
>>
>> >>href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_N._Robinson
>"
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_N._Robinson
>>
>>Kenneth N. Robinson was a member of the First
>>Presidency of the Community of Christ from 1996 to
>>2007. Robinson was also an apostle and a member of the
>>Council of Twelve Apostles of the church from 1980 to
>>1996.
>>
>> >>href="http://galaweb.org/ReadArchive.php?id=5">http://
>g
>>alaweb.org/ReadArchive.php?id=5
>>
>>A speech given on July 17, 1999 by Bill Russell at the
>>1999 Sunstone Symposium in Salt Lake City, Utah.
>>HOMOSEXUALS IN THE RLDS CHURCH: A PROGRESS
>>REPORT
>>By William D. Russell
>>
>>The official position of the RLDS Church on priesthood
>>remains: a homosexual can be in the priesthood only if
>>s/he is not a practicing homosexual. But this
>>policy is breaking down as the church in a significant
>>number of jurisdictions is ignoring the policy and
>>ordaining known homosexuals to the priesthood and not
>>silencing from priesthood offices gay and lesbian
>>priesthood members who reveal their sexual
>>orientation. Although unofficial, commitment
>>ceremonies are becoming more common and have gained a
>>surprising amount of support. Attitudes are
>>changing and the church appears to be in the middle of
>>a change in practice. But it is not certain the battle
>>will be won or whether it will be a bloody one, like
>>the ordination of women in the 1980s. But it appears
>>that President McMurray is trying to
>>carefully lead the church toward becoming a
>>fellowship of people who provide a safe place for gays
>>to worship and fellowship as respected members of the
>>body of Christ. And when he became President he
>>chose as the new counselor in the First Presidency
>>none other than Ken Robinson, the person who wrote the
>>liberal policy in 1978 that has been filed
>>somewhere in the First Presidency's office ever
>>since.
>>-------
>>
>>Submitted by Lois
>>
>> >>href="http://www.cofchrist.org/wc2002/sermons/Grant200
>2
>>.asp">http://www.cofchrist.org/wc2002/sermons/Grant200
>2
>>.asp (No longer there)
>>
>>Called to Discipleship: Coming Home in Search of the
>>Path
>>W. Grant McMurray 2002 World Conference Address April
>>7, 2002
>>
>>�I am not in the habit of telling our delegates how
>>they should vote, but I am about to make an exception.
>>I request the delegates to this World Conference to
>>table or refer all pending legislation on
>>homosexuality so that we can avoid actions that will
>>be divisive and shape a process by which a broader
>>understanding and consensus can be built. I will ask
>>the Standing High Council to participate with others
>>in looking anew at this matter, seeking issues on
>>which we can surely agree (God's love of all people,
>>fidelity, the value of family, the sacredness of
>>sexuality as part of creation) and shaping dialogue in
>>areas where we do not agree (the blessing of same-sex
>>relationships, standards for ordination, the
>>interpretation and authority of scripture).
>>
>>In the meantime, I ask the Community of Christ to be
>>willing to live with us on the boundary for a while.
>>To do this means that we may not have a policy that
>>guides every decision, but we will have to trust the
>>Holy Spirit to accompany us in our choices. It means
>>that some parts of the church may function differently
>>from other parts of the church and there will be
>>distinctions that are occasionally unsettling but
>>representative of the diversity of our body, both in
>>terms of viewpoints and cultures. We recognize that
>>certain national governments have requirements that
>>our local church leaders in those nations will need to
>>respect and interpret in accordance with their own
>>cultural understandings.
>>
>>Because of these many differences, our church stands
>>in the midst of much ambiguity and inconsistency. We
>>have a twenty-year-old statement from the Standing
>>High Council that serves as official guidance, but has
>>not been universally adhered to throughout the church.
>>I will be totally honest and acknowledge that I have
>>myself participated in situations where its provisions
>>were not honored. I have been present in conferences
>>where persons I knew to be in long-term, committed
>>homosexual relationships were approved for priesthood
>>in jurisdictions where their lifestyle was known and
>>their ministry was accepted. The conflict within me
>>was between lawgiver and pastor. To enforce the policy
>>would have required me to intervene and prevent the
>>ordination of someone whose call to ministry I could
>>not deny. This I could not do. This I will not
>>do.�
>
>
>This is untrue, Lois. Commitment ceremonies are
>official. After all, administrative approval must be
>obtained from the higher ups to have such ceremonies.
>
>If a ceremony can't be held without permission from
>the Stake President and the First Presidency, it is
>more "offical" than it is "un."
>
>But note how the above portrays the homosexualization
>of the church as some kind of out-of-control riot that
>the FP is having to deal with that is barely within
>their control. The First Presidency had no trouble
>controlling the popular movement knows as the
>Restoration Movement. Why? Because the FP was not in
>agreement with the Restorationists and was not bending
>over backward to cooperate with them and give them an
>entre into the circles of power.
>
>The FP could silence homosexual priests. It won't. In
>fact, the bunch that became such a scandal at the 2002
>World Conference was deliberately proclaimed by the
>First Presidency to have the right to the priesthood.
>It won't silence people who ordain avowed homosexuals.
>It gives approval for secret same-sex shacking up
>ceremonies to be held in CofC branches. It donates
>money to GALA. It has NEVER sued GALA and told it to
>cease and desist from using the Community of Christ or
>RLDS name for publicity.
>
>The "Gay Games" exist because the owners of the title
>"Olympics" refused to release it for a "Gay Olympics."
> The CofC hierarchy has amply demonstrated that it has
>the ability and will power to sue. It just won't sue
>people who are part and parcel of their own agenda.
>
>The CofC's administrative and policing powers are
>abused in the same way that police power used to be
>abused in the Deep South. The joke goes that one
>victim in Mississippi was shot thirteen times in the
>back, run over five times with a car, stabbed 23
>times. The sheriff was quoted as saying, "That's the
>worst case of suicide I ever seen."
>
>The CofC leaders claiming that the homosexualization
>of the church is a popular movement that they cannot
>control (i.e, simply the church itself committing
>suicide) is just more of the same nonsense. The CofC
>hierarchy has the guns, the knives, and the automobile
>used in the crime ALL registered in its own name, and
>has proven so by not suing to show otherwise.
>
>George

George,

They actually gave them permission to use it.
----

http://welcomingcommunitynetwork.org/wcnnews200812.pdf

WCNnewsletter December 2008 Volume 2 Issue 12 Page 3

Step by Step

GALA has received permission to use the name of the church, Community of Christ, on their letters and materials from this point forward; a significant step in their faith journey. As many of you know, when GALA was beginning in the late 1980�s, use of the church name was strictly prohibited.
-----

Lois

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Re: Already determined the outcome? 2 -- George, 23:01:09 04/04/11 Mon