Re: Already determined the outcome? Mission centers -- Mamusz' Restoration Forum

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Date Posted: 14:16:18 04/30/11 Sat
Author: George
Subject: Re: Already determined the outcome? Mission centers
In reply to: Lois 's message, "Re: Already determined the outcome? Mission centers" on 09:48:14 04/30/11 Sat

>>> >>>href>>
>>>Journeying Toward a USA National Conference
>>>BY THE USA APOSTOLIC TEAM
>>>
>>>Q: Has church leadership already determined the
>>>outcome on issues of same-gender marriage and
>>>ordaining people in same-gender relationships?
>>>
>>>A: No, church leadership is committed to discernment
>>>leading to the USA National Conference. This process
>>>will include spiritual practices, dialogue, scripture
>>>reflection, and study of credible resources that
>>>provide multiple perspectives on human sexuality and
>>>healthy, faithful, and committed relationships.
>>>--------
>>>
>>>I don't believe that. Does anybody reading this
>>>believe that? Following is a list of Community of
>>>Christ staff members. Are you going to tell me that
>>>they aren�t going to be putting their full weight
>into
>>>getting homosexual marriages and ordinations into the
>>>life of the church?
>>>------
>>>
>>>
>>>Ken Barrows is president of the Australia
>>>Mission Centre. He was exported to Australia from the
>>>East Canada area.
>>>------
>>>
>>>
>>>The following legislation was voted and approved by
>>>the Australian Mission Centre and presented to the
>>>2010 Community of Christ World Conference:
>>>
>>>(excerpt)
>>>
>>>Therefore be it Resolved,
>>>That this World Conference ask the First Presidency
>to
>>>consider allowing for the ordination of individuals
>>>regardless of their sexual orientation in those
>>>jurisdictions of the church where such priesthood
>>>calls are received, or have been received and duly
>>>processed and approved by the appropriate leaders and
>>>where such ordinations are accepted by the will of
>the
>>>congregation, and/ or Mission Centre, or World
>>>Conference.
>>>
>>>Prepared for discussion and clarification of wording
>>>and concept by Mission President Ken Barrows
>>>7 July 2009
>>>
>>>Submitted by Lois
>>
>>I love the vagueness of this, Lois.
>>
>>The proposed legislation pretty much says that it will
>>be o.k. to ordain an avowed homosexual IF:
>>
>>1. The call has been received.
>>
>> No word about who receives the call, or from Whom,
>>or how. Indian members of the church are free to
>>assume the call comes from Shiva.
>>
>>OR
>>
>>2. The call has been received and duly processed and
>>approved by appropriate leaders.
>>
>>No word on who the "appropriate" leaders are. The
>>liberal definition of appropriate could stretch from
>>Kim Jon Il to Aguste Pinochet. One bet, though.
>>Anybody who is conservative, fundamentalist, or even
>>close to being sane isn't going to be deemed an
>>"appropriate" leader. It's that old "administrative
>>approval" thing, meaning that the proposed legislation
>>provides an elastic clause OKing anything that they
>>want to do, and excluding anyone from the decision
>>that they choose to exclude. There is no mention in
>>the proposed legislation of what to do when leadership
>>decides to make an "executive" end run around the
>>legislation.
>>
>>AND
>>
>>3. Where the call is "accepted"
>> By the will of the congregation,
>> AND/OR the mission center
>>
>> OR
>>
>> World Conference
>>
>>The flow chart goes like this:
>>
>>Want to ordain a homosexual?
>>
>>Yes/No.
>>
>>If No, then you don't do it.
>>
>>If Mb>Yes, then go to step two.
>>
>>Step Two
>>
>>Call the homosexual.
>>
>>Did you call the homosexual?
>>
>>If No, then don't ordain him/her.
>>
>>If yes, go to step three
>>
>>Step Three
>>
>>Did the homosexual accept the call, and was it duly
>>processed, and was it approved by "appropriate
>>leaders?"
>>
>>If you don't know what "appropriate leaders" means,
>>then turn in your prieshood card.
>>
>>If No, then don't ordain him/her.
>>
>>If Yes, then go to step four.
>>
>>Step Four
>>
>>Is the call accepted by the local congregation?
>>
>>If Yes, then ordain him.
>>
>>If No, then tell the congregation to "sit on
>>it," and go ask the mission center.
>>
>>Did the mission center approve the call?
>>
>>If Yes, then ordain him.
>>
>>If No, then tell the mission center to "sit on
>>it" and go to the World Conference.
>>
>>If the World Conference says No, then ordain
>>him anyway and don't tell anybody.
>>
>>If the World Conference says Yes, then ordain
>>him and don't tell anybody because everybody who needs
>>to know will already know.
>>
>>I notice that steps such as seeing if the call came
>>from God, or if the homosexual him/herself accepted
>>the call are not mentioned. Apparently there is a
>>basic underlying assumption that is not made clear in
>>the text, or was never clear in the minds of the
>>writers to begin with.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Orlando Community of Christ News, May 2004, Issue 6,
>>>page 1
>>>�Listening Circles Introduced to the Congregation
>>>On Sunday, May 16th, Pastor Andrea Henson,
>>>co-facilitated by Pat McKay, introduced the concept
>of
>>>Listening Circles to the congregation.
>>>The World Church has requested that we form these
>>>circles in our congregation (6-10 people each) for
>the
>>>purpose of listening to each other in a safe, non
>>>threatening environment. Listening Circles are a
>tool
>>>that can be used to discuss any difficult issue. The
>>>World Church has requested that the issue of
>>>homosexuality in the Community of Christ be our first
>>>focus.�
>>
>>Let me clarify this for our lurkers, Lois.
>>
>>To reflect the truth, it should say, "...homosexuality
>>is our only focus."
>>
>>I notice that steps such as seeing if the call came
>>from God, or if the homosexual him/herself accepted
>>the call are not mentioned. Apparently there is a
>>basic underlying assumption that is not made clear in
>>the text, or was never clear in the minds of the
>>writers to begin with.
>>
>>George
>
>I noticed that they moved Ken Barrows from East Canada
>to Australia. When Section 156 went into effect they
>moved alot of people around in order to speed up the
>agenda. Agents of the leadership were pretty easy to
>spot.
>
>Lois

I know what you mean, Lois. They are called "community organizers" in some quarters. The job used to be called "outside agitator." Der Furer, Tio Fidel, Il Duce, and many others started their careers that way -- create a "problem" that doesn't exist, or turn a molehill problem into Mount Everest, and then demand that it be solved -- but only using one's own solution. And of course, your solution is not calculated to solve the problem, but it designed to twist everything around to one's own advantage -- to the deteriment of everyone else.

Take Civil Rights, for instance. The mechanism to solve that was put in place years ago, but the "community organizers" do everything they can to saboutage its workings. Why? Because if the problem actually were solved, they'd all have to find something less lucrative to do, or invent another "serious social problem" out of nothing.

George

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