Investment in Athletics -- Canisius University Golden Griffins

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- JB, Wed, March 08 2023, 10:38:37

Pretty much brought/bringing them to the level of the KAC honestly. What is so wonderful in the list of renovations to the Yanitelli Center except for the vaunted video boards? That place was horrible. And Rider's work is in progress. I said they have been at or near the top with a substandard facility.

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[> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Buffalo Super Fan, Wed, March 08 2023, 13:33:54

Canisius College has not been to the NCAA tournament since the Buffalo Memorial Auditorium last Griffs season there. There is no future regardless of the future Griffs basketball coach hired with KAC like that. I can’t believe there are Canisius alums thinking that Canisius College can get to the NCAA Tournament with KAC exactly like the way it is? How? What world or planet does a Canisius alum that thinks KAC is fine live in? How is Canisius competing for basketball recruits in the MAAC selling the KAC? Don’t look at me? When Canisius College had me come into the Canisius College offices for a team manager job as a graduating high school senior with my mom and dad Canisius Golden Griffins basketball was still at Buffalo Memorial Auditorium. Our Griffs media guide pictures were taken at newly opened Pilot Field of the Buffalo Bisons. I don’t have answers KAC was a practice gym that held Canisius Physical Education Classes in the off uses in my Canisius College days. I have no idea how UCLA Bruins John Wooden could win at Canisius potentially with KAC if he was alive and I consider him the greatest college basketball coach ever. I am saying even John Wooden the greatest can’t win the MAAC championship here at the KAC. So if he can’t? We need a improved KAC with investment by Canisius College in my opinion. Go Griffs! Let’s Go Buffalo

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- HWG, Wed, March 08 2023, 17:25:46

We know that Koessler isn’t state of the art. The ghost of John Wooden isn’t going to walk through the door and Coach the Griffs. A change is needed. The school needs to upgrade the facilities for sure. The new president has said this. Buffalo Super Fan we need to look forward. Buffalo, Canisius & college basketball has changed. A bigger athletic budget is needed. If Siena can do it why not us? It needs to be a priority. That starts with the Board of Trustees. Poor leadership has got us here. You can keep blaming the coaches but the demise has been over the years since Beilein left. It needs to start now. Niagara is doing better than us. What a mess! Go Griffs!

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[> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Wed, March 08 2023, 18:14:50

I would absolutely love to see a wild monetary commitment to basketball. And I've been as outspoken about a coaching move as anyone.

But...If Siena can do what? What has Siena done since 2009-10 when they made the tournament? Since 2010-11, Siena has won 193 games and Canisius 187. We will never have a 15,000 seat arena. And apparently having one really hasn't helped them much in almost 15 years anyway. A CBI Championship in 2014?

Is Niagara really in a better position overall? How?

And I'm pretty sure John Wooden could win a MAAC Championship playing in the KAC.

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[> Re: Investment in Athletics -- It's not just money..., Wed, March 08 2023, 19:07:47

Money helps absolutely, but it's also creating a pipeline for students to become season ticket holders/donors, and for those alumni/fans to help create opportunities for students.

Canisius needs to adopt a fan development model and start turning these random groups of supporters into one cohesive community.

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Wed, March 08 2023, 19:38:17

Outstanding point!

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- GoldenGriff32 (Reggie), Thu, March 09 2023, 2:20:07

There is virtually no student support unless the students are getting class credit. The old guard is dying off and there is no big group of fans behind them. Reggie has done this. he has alienated everyone. I cant see myself buying season tickets to see a Lame Duck coach for 1 more year. please Mr. Steve stop this insanity.

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- D, Thu, March 09 2023, 9:35:16

We need a modern day Sonny Vaccaro

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[> Re: Investment in Athletics -- left-coast griff, Thu, March 09 2023, 5:22:57

John Wooden could win a championship in the KAC, if he had Sam Gilbert. Because he never won much of anything at UCLA and was second-fiddle to USF and Cal until Gilbert began handing out money and clothes and cars in the early 1960s.

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- BfloGriff, Sat, March 11 2023, 3:40:36

A blast from the not too distant past. Father Cooke did a development drive which had a $90M goal. They raised $95M. Canisius has done nothing that ambitious since. Its time.

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[> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Need Change, Thu, March 09 2023, 9:53:53

So everyone here apparently wants to stick their head in the sand and expect to get better players with some of the worst facilities and program investment in the country?

Cool. Keep believing we’re just a few offensive sets away from being Iona….

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- JB, Thu, March 09 2023, 11:23:01

Who said that? But you act like it's a matter of just doing it. Start here. Where are the millions of dollars necessary to carryout all of these proposals going to come from? And don't just say "donors". Because we don't have the donors needed to do anywhere near all of these things.

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[> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Need Change, Thu, March 09 2023, 15:25:23

Well this is the Athletics Directors job, so it’d be nice to hear this group hold him accountable for once.

Honestly drastic measures are needed. I don’t think cutting sports is off the table. The school just burns money on the hockey program with no ROI. It doesn’t move the needle nationally at all,, but I don’t see that changing. Maybe some other sports needs to be looked at.

Canisius doesn’t have a venue conducive to soccer being artificial turf. Swimming and Diving can go the way synchronized swimming did a decade ago as far as I’m concerned. Womens rowing makes no sense in Buffalo, NY. The only things off the table in my opinion should be ones with sustained success (baseball/softball) and lacrosse (women, but the men can be successful too geographically). Cross country/track should be safe too. Next to no cost overhead.

The precedent is there. Furman had its most successful basketball season ever and heading to the tournament. It was also very good in football just two short years after cutting sports and allocating the budgets to those sports.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Thu, March 09 2023, 16:02:02

It's not the AD's job to resolve a problem that has no solution. Hold him accountable for what? So if they reduce hockey spending, cut soccer, swimming, and rowing - they can build a brand new 30 million dollar arena, hire higher paid coaches, hire a DOBO, and put more money into the recruiting budget. Makes perfect sense.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Need Change, Fri, March 10 2023, 3:24:56

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, minus the new arena.

A few million in upgrades goes a long way.

And Furman has state of the art lighting, sound and video boards as part of their upgrades to Timmons Arena, and the LEAD gift for those renovations was $4 million in 2018-19. The total project was more than that.

When's the last time Canisius put even $1 million into athletics facilities.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Upgrades, Fri, March 10 2023, 7:25:16

The gymnasium underwent a face lift that was completed in 2002. The ceiling was removed, and the walls were refinished and painted. The bleachers were replaced with 1,100 chair back seats and new bleachers, bringing the capacity to 2,196. The floor was refinished and repainted, and a new sound system was installed. In addition, the lighting was upgraded and wiring was added to allow for televised games. The final touch was the addition of new scoreboards, one of which lists individual players’ points and fouls. The $1.3 million renovations were made with the help of a $1 million gift from Chester and Diane Stranczek. Over the past 10 years, the KAC has added offices for its staff on the ground level, new equipment in an expanded weight room, new offices for the Athletic Department, a new ticket office and the state-of-the-art Center for Athletic Training.

The summer of 2007 saw the redesign of the women's general locker room, as well as the addition of team locker rooms for softball, women's soccer, women's swimming and diving, women's cross country and synchronized swimming. In the summer of 2008, the school sponsored a construction project which will result in brand new locker rooms for the men and women's basketball programs, which are considered to be the finest on-campus facilities in the MAAC. The summer of 2010 saw the completion of the fourth phase of the school's renovation plan with the opening for new locker rooms for baseball, men's soccer, men's cross country and men's swimming and diving. Also included in that fourth phase of work was the construction of brand new offices for the department's outdoor-sport coaching staffs and the new Griffin Meeting Room, a state-of-the-art room with theater seating for up 60 people.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Need Change, Fri, March 10 2023, 8:14:46

So the first paragraph was stuff that was done prior to the birth of every athlete we can potentially recruit currently, and a some locker room upgrades when they were in diapers? Do I have that right?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Fri, March 10 2023, 8:29:15

Other than the much talked about video boards, what upgrades to the current facility would you like to see? Be specific.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Need Change, Fri, March 10 2023, 10:48:04

Video boards, improved lighting (LED, option to change color), improved sound system, upgraded concession stands, premium seating spaces, upgrades to signage and branding, improved locker rooms, renovations to the practice gym space in back so recruits see better training facilities, upgraded, expanded and modernized weight room, improved exterior entrances to make it feel like a stadium/arena and not a HS gym.

That’s just a start and I fully understand this all isn’t financially feasible…. But that’s a list of where to start.

You seem pretty content with the KAC and I’m confused why.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Fri, March 10 2023, 11:47:00

I said other than video boards but ok. And I actually do agree that these are needed.

Nothing at all wrong with the lighting. Not sure what you mean by changing color. Nothing wrong with the sound system. Concession stand upgrades - I guess. I can't remember the last time I desired a sports arena concession item during a 2 hour basketball game but I can go with it. There are court side premium seats and with the Griffin Den open now in the one endzone, you can sit there as well. Not specific enough to know what else you'd like to see in the current facility. They have increased and improved signage coming in from the parking lot entrance. Could always be more I guess. The basketball locker room is top flight. Have you ever been in it? It's a practice gym. Actually was a great addition when it was built. You've been in the weight room recently? Not quite sure what you mean by "improved exterior entrances". Like new doors?

So a better concession stand, colored lighting?, premium seats in space that doesn't exist, more signs, a spruced up practice gym, and new doors. You're right! We can afford facility upgrades!

I'm not at all content with the KAC. I'd love a brand new 6,000 seat arena that was sold out every game. But that's not going to happen. So you make the KAC to be the best it can be - which I think to a great extent, they have.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Need Change, Fri, March 10 2023, 13:58:10

Are you viewing this through your own eyes as a fan who’s already been invested in the program? Because if you try to put yourself in the lens of a 17 year old recruit on an official visit, I think you’d feel differently about all of the things I mentioned.

“It’s just a practice gym.” — there’s a reason the big college football schools spend hundreds of millions of dollars in operations centers and practice facilities. Canisius can’t afford anything like that - but they can improve what they have. And yes I’ve been in the locker room. I’ve also seen nicer ones at peer schools to Canisius.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Fri, March 10 2023, 15:05:51

Obviously through my eyes as a fan who is invested in the program. But now we are no longer viewing it through our eyes but that of a 17 year old recruit? Ok.

I seriously doubt that a 17 year old recruit gives a shit about the concession stand or whether or not the lights are LED and can change colors. I'm still trying to figure that one out. And I'm quite sure they wouldn't care about exterior entrances. They are probably more concerned with why half of the seats are empty. Practice facilities at big time football schools have absolutely nothing to do with an additional gym at a MAAC school. And I'll bet that if they practiced 5 times in the Patrick Lee this year, it was a lot. Other sports (baseball/softball in particular) use it much much more. Show me one practice pic from any of their social media accounts where they are not practicing in the KAC. And how does one make it in to so many "peer" locker rooms and which schools exactly have better ones?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Need Change, Fri, March 10 2023, 16:29:14

Believe it or not, at this level, guys like to get more work in than their 90 minute practice per day, and recruits like to see investment in the spaces they spend a significant portion of their time while at school. No offense man, but I care significantly more what gets us players to win games, than about your personal viewing experience.

Anywho, here’s all those magical examples you don’t think exist.

Here’s Siena’s nicely branded practice facility: https://sienasaints.com/facilities/del-grosso-practice-court/1029

And their S&C space which is onjectively nicer than Canisius’ as well (https://sienasaints.com/sports/2018/5/29/ot-sien-strencond-html.aspx)

Here’s a nutrition center attached to Fairfields locker room. (https://www.fairfield.edu/files/images/athletics/friends-of-athletics/philanthropic-enhancements-and-experiences/12031_ath_friends-of-athletics_philanthropic-ehnancements-and-experiences_fueling-station-image-2_500x281_09072018.jpg.jpg)

Marist examples: https://goredfoxes.com/facilities/team-weight-room-first-floor-/21

Let’s take a look at the facilities page of the reigning MAAC champs and one seed. Oh what do you know, all of the things I suggested for the KAC are their highlights. From their school website:

ENTRANCE
The new Arrigoni Hall of Excellence will be created in the front entranceway to showcase Iona's storied past in athletics. It will feature cases displaying championship trophies and memorabilia and showcase all members of the College's Goal Club Hall of Fame. (Seems better than walking down a HS looking hallway next to the pool from the upper lot)

SCOREBOARDS
The current scoreboards, which measure approximately 16' x 12', and were installed in 2014, will be reconfigured into fascia ribbon displays along the north and south walls. The 10mm LED display will be made into a 65.6' ribbon along the south wall behind the benches and two 16.4' ribbons along the north wall on either side of the TV camera platform. In addition, four 4mm LED displays measuring 12.6' x 9.45' will be installed in each corner of the building, more than tripling the current square footage of LED scoreboards in the building. The four corner displays, fascia ribbon boards and sideline scorer's tables will be integrated to operate from the same area. Iona has retained its current partner, ANC Sports, for scoreboard installation.

SOUND
A new state-of-the-art sound system replaces the current system, which was installed in 2013. The current system was sufficient to facilitate athletics events, however, with the addition of the video boards a year later, the design was not ideal for assemblies held in the gymnasium. The sound system will be configured to accommodate both athletics contests and events such as admissions and commencement assemblies, convocations and high school graduations that are currently hosted in the Hynes Athletics Center.

LIGHTING
Upgrades to the lighting system will also be made and – as with the sound – will be adaptable to all events taking place in the facility including practices, contests and assemblies. The new lighting ensures better service of our top quality, student-produced ESPN game coverage to television broadcasts. The current lighting system was installed in the early 2000s.

ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS
In addition, there will be upgrades to Iona's varsity locker rooms, ticket windows and concession areas. These changes will not occur this summer but will be enjoyed by Iona's student-athletes and spectators at a later date.

I’ll keep providing examples if you want

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Fri, March 10 2023, 17:22:39

LOL. You are really something. Siena has a "top flight" practice facility because they don't have an on campus game facility! So that Del Grasso Practice Court has some stickers on the wall and a finished floor. It's better than the KAC where Canisius practices? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Half of your links don't work but I looked them up myself.

How is Siena's Strength and Conditioning space any better than Canisius? Of course Marist's is bigger, they have a football team.
Weight Room at KAC

What makes Fairfield's nutrition center better than Canisius'?
Refueling Station

I'm not going to go through all of the silliness you copied and pasted about Iona because they have wealthy boosters and a hall of fame coach that I think means a little bit more than the crap you are posting. But just a few things -

The sound system at Iona is perfectly fine for basketball games - "The current system was sufficient to facilitate athletics events, however, with the addition of the video boards a year later, the design was not ideal for assemblies held in the gymnasium. The sound system will be configured to accommodate both athletics contests and events such as admissions and commencement assemblies, convocations and high school graduations that are currently hosted in the Hynes Athletics Center." So it's upgrade was for assemblies and high school graduations.

ENTRANCE
"The new Arrigoni Hall of Excellence will be created in the front entranceway to showcase Iona's storied past in athletics. It will feature cases displaying championship trophies and memorabilia and showcase all members of the College's Goal Club Hall of Fame." Canisius has exactly the same thing. I miss your point.

And what is with you and the lighting? It isn't a problem. Maybe it was at Iona. I haven't been there in 15 years. Are the new lights going to change colors?

Please don't provide any more ridiculous examples. You've done more than enough already.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Need Change, Sat, March 11 2023, 4:41:41

“I haven’t been there in 15 years”

Yeah, that’s pretty clear about any venue outside of the KAC. Keep your head in the sand and your ideas in the 90s. Maybe someday the glory days will return if you just wish enough

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Sat, March 11 2023, 6:27:03

To Iona genius. And I used to work their camp for 4 or 5 summers. Trust me. I've been to many many more away games than you have. And you still spew these falsehoods and don't address them when called out. The practice facility, the refueling station, the weight room, the Sports Hall of Fame Display, and of course the colored lights.

Are you a season ticket holder? When was the last time you ventured from Syracuse to attend a game? And you still haven't explained how you get in to so many "peer" locker rooms. You just babble about nothing.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Griff, Sat, March 11 2023, 6:32:42

And better yet, when were you at Iona last if ever? You don't even have a clue about the details of the KAC.

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[> [> [> [> Furman Huh? -- Griff, Thu, March 09 2023, 16:15:13

Furman plays in a 2500 seat gym that had 3 million dollars worth of upgrades two years ago. Not a hell of a lot better than the KAC. People watch way too much ESPN and think everyone plays in 15,000 seat arenas. Watch west coast ESPN+ games sometime. Watch games at Rider, St. Peter's, Niagara, and Marist sometime.

Timmons Arena

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- left-coast griff, Thu, March 09 2023, 13:16:12

There was already enough talent this year to win 16-17 games if it was coached correctly.

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[> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- JB, Thu, March 09 2023, 14:50:43

Eh I don't think so. I'm not counting Fredonia so I would say 12-13 D1 wins versus 9. But that's not the issue. People want to buy out the existing staff, hire a new and more expensive staff (possibly including Patrick Beilein), put more money in to the program, and last but not least...build a new arena. How??? No one can answer that.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- Ralph, Thu, March 09 2023, 17:51:09

Start here.

https://www.ralphcwilsonjrfoundation.org/our-focus/

There is 60 million sitting there. Link an upgrade to KAC with the development need of the East side of Buffalo. This is a much more realistic approach.

The Wilson family has been supported CC over the years.

You don’t ask you don’t get. Let’s at least take a shot. Go Griffs!

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[> Re: Investment in Athletics -- left-coast griff, Thu, March 09 2023, 18:07:24

We lost three games to MSM and lost to Niagara, Cleveland State, Siena, FGCU, Toledo, Manhattan, Rider and Quinnipiac by four points or less, or in OT. That's 11 possible wins there, even if we win half of them we are 15-15.

Patrick Beilein would not break the bank. He would take the CC job for Reggie money. I've noted ways to be creative with RW's buyout that won't break the bank. The assistants are on one-year contracts, they cost us nothing after July 1.

An arena has to wait, but we can spend more money. Even if we increase our attendance by 10K over the course of the season, that's $100,000 in added revenue.

Get busy living, or get busy dying. Not sure why you are being such a negative Nelly.

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[> [> Re: Investment in Athletics -- JB, Thu, March 09 2023, 18:42:27

Oh my God this guy. This roster was no better than any of those teams except maybe Manhattan. They were very fortunate to even being close to Toledo, FGCU, and Cleveland St. I can just as easily say that they shouldn't have beaten Rider, Niagara, Siena, Bona, and St. Peter's twice. MSM is much better than their record. 12-13 wins with that roster.

Why do you keep saying that "assistants" are on one year deals? It's not true. Do you really think there is some rule somewhere that says this? So all college assistant coaches in the nation are on one year contracts huh? Please stop.

You have no clue as to how RW's buyout is structured or if he would ever accept your proposal.

Patrick Beilein will never be the Canisius coach!!! What do you not get???

Cute saying...

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[> Re: Investment in Athletics -- left-coast griff, Fri, March 10 2023, 9:16:37

Because having worked in, or close to, D1 college athletics for more than 30 years I happen to know how almost every assistant coach's contract is set up. Unless you are a coordinator in football, almost every single assistant coach is on a one-year deal.

We lost 11 games in OT, or by four or fewer points, with a horrible coaching staff. That's 2-3 possessions per game. It's not a stretch to say we could have won at least five of them with better coaching, no matter how talented our team was. The close games we did win, we'd certainly win again with better coaching.

I do know how fired coaches are generally paid out. It's not in a lump sum. I do not know if RW would accept a buyout staggered over several years. THAT'S WHY YOU ASK HIM. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Condescension is not a good attitude to take. Yet you do so regularly.