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Date Posted: 14:50:57 04/01/03 Tue
Author: FawnDoo
Subject: Responses to responses
In reply to: Perceptor II 's message, "Responses" on 15:07:03 03/26/03 Wed

"I think NASA might be working on this. :p"

Hell, I don't even pay taxes to the US Government but I might be tempted to put some cash in for that project! :-)

"You know, there were plenty of investigations into those claims, and no proof could be found. It's possible that this happened and just no proof was found, but it's more likely that a lot of first time black and Hispanic voters had some difficulties with the voting process and some Democrats, specifically those of a more extremist bent who tend to believe that all Republicans are racists, blew them way out of proportion."

Oh please - no proof could be found? Floridians were banned from voting because their name slightly resembled that of a convicted felon - often of a different race completely! And if your point about the first time voter confusion is true, then is it not strange that white first time voters for Bush did not experience similar problems at the ballot box? I don't think all republicans are racist - but there are political opportunists who might seize upon ethnicity as a means to an end, and that is what I think happened in Florida - and I am not the only one to think so. Click here, here or here to read some articles from people who seem rather dubious about the whole thing - or check out Michael Moore's book "Stupid White Men" for his take on the matter. Mister Moore is biased, there is no doubt of that - but his point of view is striking nontheless.

"One must point out that Bush meant that statement to be in the context of the war against terrorism (of which only a small portion involves military action), in that countries can't sit by and do nothing. One could also point out that Bush wasn't the first to voice that sentiment. That credit goes to Hillary Rodham Clinton, Senator from New York and wife of former President Bill Clinton. In any case, it does seem that the Bush administration is still treating Germany and France as allies, allies that they're not totally happy with, but allies nonetheless and certain not enemies."

As Goktimus pointed out though, the war on terrorism is not a war on terrorism wherever it may be found - right now, it is a war on people who have wronged the US. And it doesn't matter who first espoused the "if you're not for us you're against us" doctrine - it's dangerously simplistic to make such a polarized viewpoint the lynchpin of foreign policy.

"Labelling people who have contrary opinions as "enemies" and "traitors", as distasteful as it is, is protected free speech."

So if I were to refer to a black person in my work as the Office Nigger, that would be protected free speech, distasteful as it would be to do so? Or the Office Wop? Kraut? Kike? Towelhead? And what of the harm done to these people? Do you not think that being labelled a traitor because of your beliefs is reprehensible? By the accepted legal standards of the day George Washington was a traitorous leader of a band of treacherous terrorists: and it is alright to say so?

Free speech has to be matched with maturity and a measure of responsibility: to simply say "you can say what you like" just doesn't work. Words form the world around us, and the names we call one another can have a wideranging effect, and for a taxpaying American actor to be labelled a traitor fo simply disagreeing with the establishment is getting dangerously close to the days of the Un-American activities investigations.

"But when it's just speech, that's protected. I have to consider the above view as anti-free speech, not pro."

Consider the statement in any way you like - I am as much in favour of free speech as you are, but I believe it has to be tempered by the responsibility of those living in those conditions. There is no such thing as "just" speech: words can hurt and harm more than any physical attack. If all speech is protected and the line is drawn at physical action, why do workplaces recognize verbal abuse as a disciplinary matter? Why is verbal abuse recognised as a form of domestic abuse? If I was married, would I not be within the bounds of free speech you describe to subject her to a tirade of verbal abuse? If I do not like someone and use a derogatory term based on their skin colour, have I physically attacked them? No. Have I done something worthy of condemnation? By your definition, no - I am protected by free speech.

"The right to free speech protects you from being harassed or jailed by authorities for expressing an opinion, but it shouldn't protect you from criticism."

I don't need to be protected from criticism - neither, I suspect, does Martin Sheen. The difference between the two of us is that if I disagree with the war, I am not in danger of losing my job. No-one organises a boycott of what I do. The difference between myself and Sean Penn is that no-one is calling for a jihad to be declared on me. But then again, it's just words, isn't it? Words don't mean anything! Sticks and stones, eh?

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