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Date Posted: 23:46:42 06/15/02 Sat
Author: Michael
Author Host/IP: qqq095.mtg.centurytel.net / 66.112.45.95
Subject: Re: Logical Proof of God?
In reply to: Patrick 's message, "Re: Logical Proof of God?" on 22:07:57 06/15/02 Sat

lets see if i can.....
#1.the universe does exsist therefore i do not have to prove its exsistance.....it is in plain sight and i have eyes to see...
#2.information implies forthought which i dont agree with...
just because something is, does not imply that it took information to create.....or intellegence
#3.i do not have to prove godel wrong.... if you wrote what he says then he proves himself wrong.....again it doesnt make it a fact just because someone says so....

by your arguement god is independent of our universe if so why can not our universe be independent of god....

subatomic particles do not have choices they have different states but there is no proof that a choice is made but instead they can be one way or another...

what we consider morality now we aquired from hundreds of thousands of years of coexsistance... moral ideas are what people through time have agreed is moral and not what god told us is moral....

your reasoning is flawed.....
you are making scientific statements on empiricle facts...

even the bible states god states put no other god before me thereby implying there is more than one god... he goes on to say he is a vengefull god but the bible never states god is the only god....

by using electron theory as your proof you are making assumptions not based on scientific evidence
When an electron pops into existence, it derives information from outside itself. Something makes it an electron. As cause and effect goes, the formation of the electron, or the effect, must have come from a cause, and that cause provides the background information needed for the electron effect (e.g. without basic background ingredients, one could not make a cake; the formation of cakes is the extension of a logical system). In otherwords, whatever begins to exist has a cause of its existence... by this statement your saying a electron derives information but a simpler explanation is that its either a electron or its not....{no proof it makes a choice}

you keep implying that everything was created by a conscious choice when scientific evidence says everything happens by chance....you are trying to humanize what is by giving it the explanation that god did it,.....

occams razor theory says the simplist explanation is usually the correct one....

i do the ... because john has trouble following my train of thought and ... helps him

as for proving any of my points you are the one whom posted a post full of enuendo and assumptions and miscontexted facts i am just saying what you are saying is incorrect...

you posted so you must prove your facts are facts and not assumptions....

for your information i was ordained in 1963 at 5 years of age and i preached the word of god for over 9 years and i understand what you are trying to say but you are using scientific terminology to try to explain why something is what it is.... with god as your answer but the context and the words you are using do not meet the criteria for scientific evidence...
you use information when explanation is a more proper word ie a electron chooses to be a electron when a more logical explanation is enviorment make a electron or a neutron or another form of matter into what it is.... at the proper stage of development some frogs will change sex if no other sexed frogs are available for breeding you could say they chose to change sexes when the truth is homones do it automatically.....

i write simply but i understand what you are trying to write and you write very well but your facts are not facts but are instead propaganda discuissed as facts.....

logic is not a thing that everyone uses the same way and just because something is logical doesnt mean its true...
also just because one explanation seems reasonable doesnt mean its the only explanantion there could be many explanations and anyone of them could be true or none of them may be true...

reasonable and intellegent people may think logically and still be wrong.....

i as the responder do not have to prove anything you as the poster must give truthfull facts and not assumptions not based on scientific evidence....which you have not done

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