| Subject: Re: Before the 1066 and our Viking connection |
Author:
Jannock
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Date Posted: Sun, Jul 29 2007, 2:44:32
Hello Don & Grace-
I got that passage from this very website. That quote comes from a letter that our gracious host Vikki posted here http://www.angelfire.com/il/ClevelandFamilyChron/Early.html
After reading a more modern (and excelent) history of the British Isles, called "The Isles" (go figure), by Norman Davies, and reading some of the history on this site http://www.northeastengland.talktalk.net/index.htm
I feel like though the early genealogies may have very pertinent information about our family, the may for socio/political reasons have somewhat of a distorted perspective on the historical aspect of our family. I think it was popular to associate yourself with Anglo/German/Saxon roots rather than those of Viking origin.
That region in England which bears our family name has a rich Nordic history, as does much of the British Isles. Due to its relative isolation it maintained strong ties to its Viking origins for a long time, through language and trade. Viking place names abound, as well as their old stone works and crosses.
To me, with my limited knowledge of what I am speaking about, it seems more reasonable to accept the fact that it was a Viking settlement, or Thorpe, as opposed to a place or person named after Thor. Also there is a huge time gap in the Domesady book between the supposed father, Thorkil, and his believed son, Uctred. If I remember correctly, it is something along the line of 200 years between the two generations. I am fairly convinced that someone named Uctred did exist, but it seems highly plausible to me that Thorkil means Kel’s Thorpe or an equivalent.
Drawing a line from Northumbria into Norway and the region, Klieveland (on Google earth)… it just seems to make sense to me, that someone from Klievland may have settled there. When we read theories about the name Cleveland, and what it means, usually it is along the lines of Cloven-land, or Cliff-land. You can’t get more cliffy or cloven than the fjords. There are also spellings which have our name spelled as Kliveland, or de Kliveland, in context with Thorkil and Uctred.
I submitted this idea, hoping to open it up for debate with others who are more versed in the ways of our family history. I am merely an amateur at this, but I am driven through curiosity and our rich family history, to know more. I am glad it has triggered a response and look forward to more input from my cousins and the curious.
Oh also I am a US Cleveland from the Northern branch.
Take care,
-Jannock
>>Hi, Jannock ---
>>Thanks for a very interesting piece of information,
>>and no, I had not heard nor read any of your
>>information before. Albeit, I never thought that
>>"Thor" was necessarily akin to the gods, but was
>>perhaps somehow connected to something religious and
>>most definitely to the Norse / Vikings. And now you
>>tell me that "Thorkil" was not even a person, but a
>>place --- WOW. That surely throws a kink into the
>>process! And that Uctred was actually the one most
>>directly connected to the 1066 thing...still another
>>new wrinkle.
>>
>>You started by saying, "According to this passage" ---
>>then you quote from something --- what is it you are
>>quoting from?
>>
>>Are you an English Cleveland or an American Cleveland?
>>
>>I am anxious to read more about our Klievland ancestry
>>in Norway --- that would add an even greater impact to
>>1066.
>>
>>Thanks again for a great post!!
>>
>>Don
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