Re: Freedom? Not quite -- Council of The Grey

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Date Posted: 13:23:00 08/20/00 Sun
Author: �Matt�
Subject: Re: Freedom? Not quite
In reply to: steve 's message, "Re: Freedom? Not quite" on 00:16:09 08/20/00 Sun

> "You are all unhappy. You cannot deny it, because your
> entire life revolves around finding happiness and
> retaining what temporary form of happiness you have
> attained. You are all unhappy. And changing the world
> around you is what you are all trying to do; you are
> all trying to somehow change the world according to
> your miseries so your desire to esape your miseries
> are met. You are trying to change the otter to add
> quality to the inner. We all do it. Just realize it.
>
> And what a waste of energy to stress over something so
> irrelevant as politics! As if your vote matters! It
> matters not which party wins, because you will still
> remain miserable, meaningless, empty, confused. What
> will change because of your vote? A $.020 raise at
> work? $300 more on your tax return? 100 more poliece
> men on the streets (which will not be on yours)? Newer
> books for your children to spit on while they're out
> smoking pot and getting screwewd by another school
> mate? Why are you wasting your energy? That's why you
> people become depressed, over weight, addicted to
> drugs, self destructive. Because you think that by
> changing the outter, the inner will change.
>
> And most are so unaware that they still try to change
> the inner by doing things on the outter. They smile
> more, do meditations, relax, plant a garden, donate to
> charity, say more prayers to their imaginary gods,
> many things just to escape. That is still all outter
> changes.... nothing will come of it but outter
> results. And if you are sick within - which you all
> are - then you will cling more to the outside. You
> want to know who is the most confused and sick inside?
> Fine the person who is attached to his possessions and
> ideas such as a sectarianist or a political follower
> or a stingy millionaire. Find the person who lives
> simple, yet doesn't desire fori t to be complex and
> full of riches... find the person who doesn't adhere
> to any political following not out of spite, but out
> of contentment, then you'll find one who is very well
> on the inside."
>
> Now, I agree with you about what has a change of
> goverment, or so on, ever changed...but what I have
> sighted above is not directly from anywhere, but
> closesly tunned to your obvious Buddhist beliefs...and
> holds a ton of presumptions in them...again, you think
> people who try to change the world are insecure with
> something within them...ridiculous...I know how you
> feel, and what you will say to almost any remark
> before you respond...I went and read your 'mentor's'
> stuff, and while I found he had came to allot of the
> same conclusions I had, I do not agree with him...but
> your observations of other people remain so consitent
> to his work...you are try to replace one designer
> vision of self with another...the buddha had it half
> right buddy...seek emptiness from the illusion, but do
> not remain empty...fill yourself with the truth...
>
> -steve

First of all, I have never studdied buddhism. I have no interest in Buddha. Where you come up with these presumptuous ideas, I can understand. I have no mentor. I care not what words a man speaks. You quote buddha agreeing with him? What nonsense! How can you say to empty oneself yet remain not empty when you are full of yourself? Literally! You have no experience of emptiness, yet completeness, yet you agree with Buddha? It's sounds good logically to you, so you agree; that is all. Unlike you, I'm not interested in agreeing with a set of words just because they sound nice when I side them with the words that are already in my head. And I already know the selflessness you think you felt and I encourage you not to make me show you how totally selfish that really was. I have been holding out for your own psychological well-being.

Why do you want to change government? I will make this simple, just try to follow and see if it is true. You are conditioned by society.... you mother, father, friends, schooling, experience, ect ect. Through that experience, you develop a desire. Let's say that desire is for a new political party to take office. Now how did that desire errupt? From your conditioning, you develop a sense of how you want things to be according to what you think makes you happy right? You know what makes you happy and that's the opposite of what is reality now. So reality makes you sad, mad, jealous, worry, etc etc. Seeing that you become negatively emotional about it, you desire to escape that negativity and that desire manifests itself as a way to change reailty, right? The reality is that you don't like the current political party and you want to escape that dislike, so to escape it, you use your energy on trying to get another political party into office that seems to be able to change reality into a different one. All desire is a desire to escape reality. INside, reality makes you sad, angry, callous, hypocritical, etc etc and you do NOT want to be that way. Say I am a really stupid guy, and I know that's not hard for you to do, if I'm aware that I am stupid, then there will be conflict, because I do not want to be stupid. So desire arises for reality to change into my ideal which is me being not stupid. So what do I do? I read more books and become more aquisitive of book-knowledge. You cannot deny that all desire is a desire to escape reality. What desire did you have that was not merely a desire to escape reality? And change cannot come without desire. So clearly, if you are at all aware of reality, you must be able to see that any significant change, or shall I say: SUBSTITUTION, is nothing more than someone or some exploitive group trying escape their reality which is that they are suffering. Escape from suffering = prolonging that suffering. Escape from suffering = never totally facing it and therefore being free from it.

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Replies:

Re: Freedom? Not quite -- steve, 13:41:02 08/21/00 Mon