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Date Posted: 21:39:33 02/25/02 Mon
Author: Songbir d21
Author Host/IP: 091-77-189-66.wo.cpe.charter-ne.com / 66.189.77.91
Subject: Re: Slash does not = Porn
In reply to: Jules 's message, "Slash does not = Porn" on 15:59:51 10/06/01 Sat

>Hi! I am a Harry Potter slash fanfiction writer, and I
>have to tell you, I dont know what all the fuss is
>about. There is a warning. Dont like it, dont read it,
>simple as that. Also, would people be shitting a brick
>if it was heterosexual?? I think not! Warner Bros can
>try to black ball the slash websites but if their
>looking for a fight, they will get one! Please dont
>equal slash and porn together, because if you go and
>read some, you will find that most quality slash is
>not that at all. Although, I do admit there are some,
>they are labled PWP, Porn Without Plot, but you will
>find them in all genres and fandoms! Well im out!

I don't have a problem with gay/lesbian fic. I do however have a problem with sexual fic that depicts underage charaters having sex. This is in essence, kiddy porn. That's what pisses most people off. If the writer ages the characters to the legal age in the fic then that's okay. And slash does mean porn. Otherwise people just say m/m or f/f.

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Replies:

[> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- Laura Hale, 19:52:02 02/26/02 Tue (A050-0283.CHCG.splitrock.net/63.252.131.29)

> I don't have a problem with gay/lesbian fic. I do
>however have a problem with sexual fic that depicts
>underage charaters having sex. This is in essence,
>kiddy porn. That's what pisses most people off. If the
>writer ages the characters to the legal age in the fic
>then that's okay. And slash does mean porn. Otherwise
>people just say m/m or f/f.

Ummm.... No. Slash doesn't equal porn. Yaoi, Yuri aren't really porn either. Lemons, hentai, erotica.... all porn... Slash isn't porn. Check some definitions of slash and you'll notice that the vast majority of people don't define slash as porn... and saying m/m or f/f is the equivilent of saying slash... it's like saying het and hetfic or heterosexual... all mean the same thing but none mean porn.

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[> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- Ashley, 17:49:16 04/17/02 Wed (194.washington-05rh16rt.dc.dial-access.att.net/12.91.113.194)

>> I don't have a problem with gay/lesbian fic. I do
>>however have a problem with sexual fic that depicts
>>underage charaters having sex. This is in essence,
>>kiddy porn. That's what pisses most people off. If the
>>writer ages the characters to the legal age in the fic
>>then that's okay. And slash does mean porn. Otherwise
>>people just say m/m or f/f.
>
>Ummm.... No. Slash doesn't equal porn. Yaoi, Yuri
>aren't really porn either. Lemons, hentai,
>erotica.... all porn... Slash isn't porn. rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://writersu.s5.com/english/whatisslash.html">
>Check some definitions of slash and you'll notice
>that the vast majority of people don't define slash as
>porn... and saying m/m or f/f is the equivilent of
>saying slash... it's like saying het and hetfic or
>heterosexual... all mean the same thing but none mean
>porn.


I'm a new slash writer of Harry Potter. In my opinion this is not kiddy porn. We are just writing about what they would be doing since they were teens. We do not write about them screwing each others brains out when they are 9 or 10. Most stories are about them being 15 and up; which is the normal age kids lose their viginities. I could understand it if it was like teacher on student action in every single story but we write about love and what naturally comes w/ love? Sex.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- Laura Hale, 12:35:23 04/25/02 Thu (dialup-65.56.130.83.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net/65.56.130.83)


>I'm a new slash writer of Harry Potter. In my opinion
>this is not kiddy porn. We are just writing about what
>they would be doing since they were teens. We do not
>write about them screwing each others brains out when
>they are 9 or 10. Most stories are about them being 15
>and up; which is the normal age kids lose their
>viginities. I could understand it if it was like
>teacher on student action in every single story but we
>write about love and what naturally comes w/ love? Sex.

I don't think that writing sex scenes involving 15 year olds falls into the realms of... well, I just don't really think it is appropiate. (Though I'll support you right to write it irregardless.) Fifteen is hardly the age of majority. 15 year olds don't really know about love and they can't act on it in an adult fashion in 99.9% of the cases. Sex entails certain risks and there are consequences that 15 year olds probably aren't ready for. (Or, I don't think 15 year olds should be having kids or getting AIDS. Yeah, it may make me old farty but 15 year olds should not be parents.)

I wouldn't go so far as to call it child pornography but I would still slot it very close to that. Teen porngraphy? There is some word for it. Fifteen year olds and adults are worlds apart and just because you can have sex at that age doesn't mean you should.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- kat, 06:20:52 04/29/02 Mon (dialup-209.246.180.114.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net/209.246.180.114)

>15 year olds don't
>really know about love and they can't act on it in an
>adult fashion in 99.9% of the cases.

but that doesn't mean they can _think_ they know about love. the thing with 15 year olds--really, anyone 13 and up--they think they know everything, and cannot be told differently. so, while they may not know about love or sex or anything like that, they believe they do. and therein lies the problem, or in this case, therein lies the fic.

>Sex entails
>certain risks and there are consequences that 15 year
>olds probably aren't ready for. (Or, I don't think 15
>year olds should be having kids or getting AIDS.

it's not something you can stop, really. i speak from expirence, being a very misbehaving 15 year old... or, i think i was actually the most roudy when i was 13, which probably doesn't sound to good. i also have a brother who is 15, just turned it, and has been into drugs since around his 14th birthday. i hate it, but the only person who can stop him from doing something he wants to do is him.

that's the case, that's the deal. things happen. it doesn't make them right, ethical, or legal. but they still happen.

and so far as being ready for it--is anyone ever really *ready* to get AIDS or other STDs? i know the argument that an adult is more equipped to handle it, but it's just the same that nobody is ever really ready for it. (this argument basically saying--don't argue that they shouldn't get it because they're not ready. argue because nobody should really get those things.)

>Yeah, it may make me old farty but 15 year olds should
>not be parents.)

should not be doesn't make it so... i live in georgia, in the county that had the highest teen pregnancy rate for about 20 years before they _finally_ allowed a teen clinic that would help with such matters (and they *didnt* want to allow it--they would have rather turned their heads and let their children continue to have babies.) .. ugh. so, tangenting there.. i don't like it that kids have babies when they are still babies themselves, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

>Fifteen year
>olds and adults are worlds apart and just because you
>can have sex at that age doesn't mean you should.

hai, hai... but look from the 15 year old's mind--"hey, i can have sex and piss off my parents! score!".. it's all perspective.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- Trinity, 03:50:04 07/24/02 Wed (NoHost/194.154.172.75)

I write Harry Potter slash, and see nothing wrong with doing so. I am a 16 yr old bisexual female who is fed up of seeimg same sex relationships portrated in such a way as to imply that there is something wrong with them. I have written PWPs in my time, but am currently in the middle of a lengthier story that I view as an attempt to portray a same sex relationship in the same way as other writers portray heterosexual relationships, i.e. as something natural in which the characters experience the same doubts and fears about their new-found relationship as any straight couple. Perhaps you will argue that this does not constitute slash. But even graphic fan fiction is invariably labelled as such. Most writers fill a page with disclaimers attempting to ensure that a) no one who shouldn't be reading it is and b) that Warner Bros. don't sue them (although why they seem to feel the need, when none of us are making any money from it, is beyond me). In my writing I merely seek to explore the relationship between two characters who, in my opinion, are under-developed in the book and who I personally see as being gay (Severus Snape and Lucius Malfoy - and yes, I know Lucius has a wife and child, but if you think there are no gay men out there with families you are being a little naive). I do not see my work as porn. I do not see the slash work of most fan fiction writers as porn. Some of it, perhaps, but it is always clearly labelled as such. And even if you do want to count it as pornography, why complain about this when Playboy is still sitting on the top shelf of most newsagents?

If you don't like it, don't read it. But to me, this highly imbalanced campaign against slash suggests that it is not the fact that people view the content as pornographic that is the problem. It is the fact that the so-called pornographic content involves two men. Because otherwise, why are people not campaigning to ban "top-shelf" magazines?

(And incidentally, to all those people who claim slash as being teenage girls' fantasies - why is it "sick" for girls to fantasise about this when the fact that a large proportion of heterosexual men would like to see two girls together is considered perfectly normal?)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- iftruthbetold, 11:41:03 08/03/02 Sat (cache-har.cableinet.co.uk/194.117.133.118)

I believe that the way some people are reacting to slash is awful. Homosexuality should be treated like heterosexuality. There is homosexual porn, as there is heterosexual porn, and neither are suitable for kids. Incest, rape and peodophilia are in many fanfictions, often not including a gay relationship. And it is my belief from a young age children should learn about homosexuality when they learn about relationships. It happens in real life, so why shouldn't it in stories?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- richard schumaker, 14:56:10 10/30/02 Wed (cache-rl02.proxy.aol.com/152.163.189.98)

nude photo developing by sending a unused postage stamps of the latest rate of first class to one hour photo hut, pobox
8219,dept rs,woodlands,tx 77387

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- sissyboycindy (girly), 17:22:11 11/04/12 Sun (ip98-184-161-75.tu.ok.cox.net/98.184.161.75)

I totally agree,Homosexuality ,as well as bisexuality should not be ignored when educating children about sex and everything that goes with it.Being gay isnt something that is new,people have been gay since the beginning of time and with the way society is becomming more open minded and accepting to different things like being gay,or even crossdressing it wont be long before it is considered normal and becomes an every day public thing.With the way women are taking over in the job force as well as the world the males are becomming the one who stays at home and with his dominant wife being the money maker she takes over as head of the house and turns her husband into her actual wife and more than not she denys her new wife sex and seeks aou a more masculine man who can satisfy her sexually and she then makes her new wife dress and act the part including sexually .Dont be suprised if not too long from now the mom wears the pants in the family,and daddy ends up wearring skirts and dresses and becomes her sissy maid,and sooner or later their kids will catch sissy daddy on his kneed sucking one of moms boyfriends off and sissy daddy will get to explain it to his son or sons.When the women are in control of the household they will have real men visiting to satisfy their sexual needs and you know that they will have started putting panties and bras on the males that live there and not stop till they are full time sissys who will be retrained and totally gay before they know it

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- Mandella, 14:48:55 10/22/02 Tue (Dynamic128A.hilimanet.net/62.237.108.128)

I'm an avid Slash advocate and consumer, not much of a writer myself, thou. I like Slash in all forms from PG to NC-17 and beyond and I see no difference between the Het- and Slash-stories, both can be equally beautiful or just pure sex. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If little kids who accidentally wander onto Harry/Draco NC-17 site,(when they were actually looking for info on the release date of the fifth book)get a draumatic experience, then the situation wouldn't be any different if the ship was Hermione/Draco, for example, but with the same amount of "action". That's why there are warnings on those sites.And would it be amazing if all the kids would consider Draco kissing Harry as normal as Hermione kissing Harry. These writers are just doing kids the favour Walt Disney never did with his girl-meets-boy-stories.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Is this a result of the press? -- Laura, 19:55:15 10/24/02 Thu (dialup-166.90.70.239.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net/166.90.70.239)

>I'm an avid Slash advocate and consumer, not much of a
>writer myself, thou. I like Slash in all forms from PG
>to NC-17 and beyond and I see no difference between
>the Het- and Slash-stories, both can be equally
>beautiful or just pure sex. And there's absolutely
>nothing wrong with that. If little kids who
>accidentally wander onto Harry/Draco NC-17 site,(when
>they were actually looking for info on the release
>date of the fifth book)get a draumatic experience,
>then the situation wouldn't be any different if the
>ship was Hermione/Draco, for example, but with the
>same amount of "action". That's why there are warnings
>on those sites.And would it be amazing if all the kids
>would consider Draco kissing Harry as normal as
>Hermione kissing Harry. These writers are just doing
>kids the favour Walt Disney never did with his
>girl-meets-boy-stories.

Just out of curosity, I wonder if this perception that the two IE porn & slash are the same is a result of the press perception of fan fiction fostering this...

I personally see them as the same (and policy at the site I run reflects that) and think they should have the same ratings criteria. I do think though that kids looking for information on the 5th book shouldn't have to fear running across nc-17 rated fan fiction involving any pairing having graphic sex.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- I Want Kiddy Porn HAHAHA, 14:23:16 06/15/02 Sat (melchior.city.unisa.edu.au/130.220.84.75)

>>> I don't have a problem with gay/lesbian fic. I do
>>>however have a problem with sexual fic that depicts
>>>underage charaters having sex. This is in essence,
>>>kiddy porn. That's what pisses most people off. If
>the
>>>writer ages the characters to the legal age in the
>fic
>>>then that's okay. And slash does mean porn. Otherwise
>>>people just say m/m or f/f.
>>
>>Ummm.... No. Slash doesn't equal porn. Yaoi, Yuri
>>aren't really porn either. Lemons, hentai,
>>erotica.... all porn... Slash isn't porn. rel=nofollow target=_blank >>href="http://writersu.s5.com/english/whatisslash.html"
>>
>>Check some definitions of slash and you'll notice
>>that the vast majority of people don't define slash as
>>porn... and saying m/m or f/f is the equivilent of
>>saying slash... it's like saying het and hetfic or
>>heterosexual... all mean the same thing but none mean
>>porn.
>
>
>I'm a new slash writer of Harry Potter. In my opinion
>this is not kiddy porn. We are just writing about what
>they would be doing since they were teens. We do not
>write about them screwing each others brains out when
>they are 9 or 10. Most stories are about them being 15
>and up; which is the normal age kids lose their
>viginities. I could understand it if it was like
>teacher on student action in every single story but we
>write about love and what naturally comes w/ love? Sex.

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[> [> Re: Slash does not = Porn -- tiffany gregory, 07:43:34 05/10/02 Fri (Calendar.hps.k12.mi.us/204.38.177.5)

i like to eats other peoples poop!!

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