Re: "Ä" ni "E" dep elishmu qa'idige uyghun -- Uyghur Latin Yeziqi

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

05/13/24 11:59:53 [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, [6], 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 07/31/01 21:58:28
Author: Arslan
Subject: Re: "Ä" ni "E" dep elishmu qa'idige uyghun
In reply to: Abdireyim 's message, "Re: "Ä" ni "E" dep elishmu qa'idige uyghun" on 07/31/01 21:56:15

Makalidiki nawuapiq yerlerni korsetip berginingizge rehmet, diginingiz boyiche men "Mir Sultan"ni "XXX" gha ozgertim, we "teturluk" digen sozni chiqirip tashlidim. Qalghanlirigha cheqilmidim. Sizning diginingizdek, aldirap yazghanda elwette hataliqlar, we namuapiq sozler yezilip ketidu, lekin menmu digen pikringizge qarita manuazire elip berish niyitide yezilghan, ergizmu shehsi zerbe berish uchun emes. Eqiqeten Mir Sultan ependining ismini misal kelturush hata bolghan, undaq qilghanda pikir bashqa yaqqa chechilip ketish ehtimali bolidiken, shunga uni "XXX" ge ozertip qoydum. Shungdek "teturluk" digen sozum hata ishlitilgen. Bularni oylimayla yezilip ketiptu. Men buning uchun sizdin epu soraymen.
Men bu sozni peqet ishletken misalimgha qatirip digen idim, elwette misaldikidek sozligen ademlerni "tetur" deymen (hich bolmighanda ichidimde), lekin sizni ergiz tetur dimekchi emes-idim. Mening bashqa meqsidim yoq, sizning tehimu toghra mulayize qilishingizgha turke bolar-mikin depla yuqarqi makalini yazghan idim.

Burun we hazir yazghanlirimdin korup turupsiz, men sizning pikringiz omumi jeetdin qollaymen, sizning bu jeetke korsetken ajringizge apirin eytimen. Peqet meqesidim yighingha qatnashqan tilshunaslarning yekunini hata digende, ehtiyatchanliq pozitsiyesi bilen bolup, ularning nuktii neziridinmu oyliship zorurligini, we ularning qaysi tereplerdin oylashmighanlighini aydinglashturush kerek-digen meqsette sizning digenliringizge qarshi jawap yazghan idim. Men yenila towendiki yekunimde ching turimen:

Peqet sap tilshasliq jeetdin oylashqanda "�" bolsa "e" qa qarighanda ewzel, lekin emiliy ishlitishchanliqta "e" ewzel. Shunga "e" ni ishlitishimiz kerek.

Emiliyettimu ikkimizning ozara bu jeette talash-tartishning hajiti yoq, chunki men "e" ni ishlitihshni qollaymen, men sizning shunche waqtingizdin chiqirip nurghun jeetdin oylashqingizgha apirin oquymen. Lekin bu betni "�" ni ishlitish terepdaridikilermu koridu, shuningdek yighingha qatnashqan tilshunaslarmu korishi mumkin. Shunga ularning nuktii-nezirinimu aydinglashturush sorur-dep oylaymen. Bolupmu tilshunasliq jeetdin sheryilesh elip barghanda hata nukti-nezerdin ilaji bar saqlinish lazim dep qaraymen. Mesilen "Tilshunasliq jeettinmu tehlil qilghanda 'e' ni ishlitish '�' gha qarighanda ewzel" disek bolmaydu-dimekchi. Eger rastinla bu nuqtini ispatlap chiqmaqchi bolsingiz, elwette tilshunasliq ilmiydiki qaide-qanuniyetlerdin sozlishingizge toghra kelidu. Bularni tehlil qilghanda elwette sap tilshunasliq ilmiy boyiche tehlil qilish kerek-dimekchi, chunki yekunning sherti "peqet sap tilshunasliq jeettin tehlil qilghanda".
Siz "sap tilshunasliq" diki "sap"qa gumaningizni bildurupsiz, bu imliy sheryileshlerde kop qollinidu. Mesilen siz otkende birer yerge barghanda bir necche hil yolning barlighi we ularning ichidiki birsining eng qolayliqlighini depsiz, bu del sap-jughrapiyilik usul deymiz. Eger shukundiki qatnash ehwali siz digen eng qolayliq yolni qolaysiz qilip qoysa, u chaghda sap-jughrapiyilik usul bilen qarighan chaghdiki "eng ilimy" yekun nawuapiq bolup qelishi mumkin. Bundak tehlil qolish usuli bekmu keng dairide qollinidu. Eger biz eriplerni tallighanda Komputorda qandaq kirguzidighinimizni, we sestimilar arisidiki maslishishni,qatarliqlarni oylashmay peqet adette qollidighan tilishunaliqdiki "eripler we tawushlar" toghrisidiki qa'ide qanuniyetler boyichila eriplarni bekitip chiqsaq, buni sap-tilishnuasliq usuli deymiz.
Eger bu toghrida yene misal sozlisek, bundak misallarni yene nurghun korsetkili bolidu.....
Yenimu eniq qilip eytqanda eger '�' bilen "e" ikkilisila asasi rayonda bolup, olchemlik kunupka tahtisigha orunlashqan bolsa, elwette u chaghda meyli UIY bolsun, yaki UKY bolsun choqum kishiler "�mg�k","eyiq" dep yezatti, we chastota mesilisi undaq gewdilik orungha otmeytti. Eger ASCII code diki asasi we kengeytilgen rayondiki barliq eriplerni besip chiqip komputorni oylashmay turup eriplerni bekitip chiqsaq, elwette hichkim "�mg�k" ni "emgek" dep alayli dimeydu. "Chekit bek kopuyup ketkenlikdin e ni ishlitish kerek" disingiz hichkim anglimaydu. Eger rasntinla "�" rasntin kunupka tahtisida bolup 26 eripning ichide bolghan bolsa, u chaghda sizning "chastota" toghrisidiki neziriyingizge hickim qulaq salmaytti, �� larning emmisi asasi rayonda bolup olchemlik kunupka tahtisida bashqa 26 eripler bilen birge bolsa, u chaghda biz uchun alamet chong ish bolatt, bizmu "emgek" dep yezip adetlinipmu qalmayttuq. Buni choqum etiprap qilishingiz kerek. Bu yerdiki chastota mesilisi peqet "�" ning kengeytilgen rayongha jayliship qalghanlighi bilenla gewdilinip chiqqan, ergizmu tilshuasliq ilmiy bilen-emes, buni choqum-choqum aydinglashturushingiz kerek, bolmisa ejellik hataliq otkuzgen bolisiz. Bolupmu "�"ning ohshimighan code sestimisilar arisidiki maslashmasliq ehtimali bolghanliqdin sizning "chastota" toghrisidki sheyileshliringizni tehimu kushluk gewdilinip chiqti. Waris buni sezgenlikdin deslepte "UTF-8 bilen alaqilashimiz" digen idi. Lekin buning ozila kengeytilghan rayondiki eriplerni ishlitish chastotisini bek yuquri qiliwetmeslik kerekligini bilduridu. Shunning bilen elwette tebii halda "e" ni ishlitish zorurulik hulasisi kelip chiqidu. Lekin ergizmu tilshunasliqdiki qaidiler bilenla" "'�' ni ishletmey 'e' ishlitish kerek" ni qayil qilarliq chushendurup berelmeysiz. Shunga bu patqaqdin qutulup oziningiz toghra nuktii-neziringizge qaytip kelingishingizni undep yazghan idim. "Tilshunasliq jeetimu 'e' ni ishlitish '�' ishlitishke qarighanda ewzel" digen qarashni ispatlaymen dep aware bolmisingizmu sizning nurghun qerindash milletlerning tejribe-sawaqlirini toghrisidiki misalliringiz, "chastota " toghrisidki tetqiqatliringiz qatarliqlar bilenla "e" ni ishlitish zorurligini ispatlap bereleysiz. Kishilerning "e" ni "emgek"diki '�' dep qobul qilalaysighanlighini yighindiki tilshunalarmu etirap qiliptu, dimek sizning til-shunasliq jeetimu "e" ni elish '�' dep elighqa qarighanda "ilmiy" dep ispatlap chiqmisingiz bolidu, undaq qilishmu mumkin emes.
Buningha yene qayil bolmisingiz, uchaghda bir-birimizni qayil qilalmighan bolimiz. Bu chaghda elwette bashqa tordashlar kimning toghrilighigha baha beridu.

Bu maqalini arslan saet 2001-07-16.05:43:57 de tehrirligen!

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Forum timezone: GMT+2
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums^(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.