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Date Posted: 14:32:54 06/30/02 Sun
Author: tint
Subject: ooooh low blow
In reply to: Su 's message, "I don't think you're way out there." on 12:35:33 06/30/02 Sun

Su, su, su...

Atheists don't think they're god, acro players do. Duh!

i did the lower case g to piss you off btw.

And I'll now further piss you off by exposing the fallacy of your comment. Luckily the veneer is paper thin. And I won't mention the myriad of grammar issues with "Their self." since I'm feeling less anal retentive than I was earlier.

This country was founded first and foremost on one primary fundamental: Freedom of Religion. The compelling factor in leaving England was disdain for The Church of England which was the only form of worship allowed by British law.

Freedom of Religion, the cornerstone of the Bill of Rights, was so important to the Founding Fathers that they found it necessary to further extricate religions influence from any governmental interference or propogation via the mandated separation of church and state. It is this principle that gives us that wonderful recycled A word, antidisestablishmentarianism (being against the separation of church and state, as King James was).

Freedom of Religion, as Sam noted, does not exclude atheism which is classified as a religion. Religion is "a personal set or institutionalized system of attitudes, beliefs, and practices, particularly with respect to the presence or lack of presence of a supernatural being or power"

So, to an atheist, "under God" in the pledge of allegiance is exactly what "under no God, since no God exists" would be to a non-atheist. It is clearly in violation of the Constitution of these great United States. I've always been aware of the hypocrisy of that pledge line, as well as the "In God We Trust" on our government printed money, the influence of organized religion in politics, the "...so help you God" in the swearing in blurb (sometimes with one hand resting on a BIBLE, I mean - Hello, anybody home?)

Statistics say that only 2-3% of the US population are atheist. But our government is supposedly designed to protect the minority from discrimination from the majority. You probably don't want your kids being told to recite "under no God, since no God exists" every morning in a setting sanctioned by the government that you support with taxes. I don't want my kids force fed God from K-12 either. I want them to make their own decisions when they are at an age where they can do research and make an informed decision uncolored by formative years programming.

From a legal and constitutional perspective there is really no valid argument supporting the inclusion of "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. Only emotional arguments and political arguments (no politician wants to polarize himself against 98% of his constituency).

Now, about this whole "atheists have Gods. Their self.[sic]" That sounds spiteful. I've noticed a lot of bible/koran/[put your scripture's name here] thumpers seem to have a disdain for the fact that atheists have different beliefs than they do. I'm not sure why. Maybe you can explain.

Personally, I'd rather not be atheist. I'd love to believe in God. That I'm not just a temporary thing, that death is not... what it looks like it is. And I've tried. I was raised Christian, baptized, spent 1 hour in Seminary every morning learning the bible verse by verse before school started. But I started to notice discrepancies, and that bothered me. So I researched exactly how the bible was compiled, where the originals were (there aren't any), who translated them, who wrote each book and when. I won't go into it all but I came to the conclusion that there was no way of knowing what text had changed after centuries of revisions. I also learned that the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not written by either Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. The first "Gospel" written was The Book of Mark, over 150 year after Mark was dead. He had told his story to his kids who told their kids etc etc. Eventually a great great grandcousin or some such wrote the story down. This is Bible historian fact, not disputed by any of the Christian faiths that I am aware of.

I can't tell my kid to deliver a message to their mother without it getting all screwed up. Ever play "Telephone" in class?

And if God was up there guiding the hands of translators to make sure the words came out right, why so many discrepancies like Judas hung himself and then Judas threw himself off a cliff? God wouldn't miss something like that, I thought.

So, I studied the koran. It's pretty screwed up too. Then the Hindu Upanishads. Cows? Right. Zen Buddhism next, that was cool but I can't be quiet for very long. Even tried Mormonism, Scientology, you name it. Finally, I reached a hypothesis which, to me, disproves the possibility of a soul or spirit independent of the human body. I won't paste it here, its practically a novel.

But the point of all this is- I would much rather believe in God than not. But I can't pretend. My logic prevents it. Besides, which one would I join and why? They're all screwed up fundamentally. I might as well believe in the Great Blue Invisible Marble in the Sky. with Diiiiamonds.
You should believe, too. Cuz, if you dont then you go to the big red marble in the ground and suffer for eternity because you are not a marble believer. But if you just have faith in the blue marble that happens to be invisible, you will be rewarded with eternal paradise in a land of milk and honey, where you can always see the sun- day or night. Oh and gimme $100. It's for the kids, after I take out my $99.95 for my church's fundraising costs (tax-exempt of course).

So what do I believe? I don't believe I'm God. Other people think I'm God, but they haven't convinced me yet (g)

No, I didn't create myself. Two horny people did.

Religious conversation with a closed mind:

Q: Who created the Universe?
A: beats me.
Q: Aha, well someone had to!
A: Like who?
Q: God.
A: Ah. who created God?
Q: He has always just been.
A: Why couldn't the Universe have "always just been"?
Q: You need to have faith. God works in mysterious ways. Pray and read the Bible and you will feel the holy ghost.
A: Okay you pray to the blue marble and I'll pray to your God.
Q: You're going to hell you know.
A: You mean I'm not there right now?

Amen. Drive safely. If any checks in the hat bounce its like cheating God, you know that right?

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