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Date Posted: 22:44:39 11/28/01 Wed
Author: Trinity
Subject: Re: Yippee! I found my rambling theory =) Plus responses to Khali..
In reply to: KhaliG 's message, "Re: Well I agree much more with this review than with David Hines.." on 20:27:33 11/28/01 Wed

>Okay, I see what you mean. That *is* lame, but the way
>I figure it, if shows like ER (peter benton/Reese) can
>have a kid around, then why not Angel? I guess I'm the
>type who doesn't mind having kids coming into the
>storyline as long as the writers tell the story right.


Don't misunderstand, I have nothing against babies/kids on TV shows.. just 'Baby Bathroom Humor' being played constantly for laughs. =) Like you, I can't wait to see what they're going to do with the 'baby arc'.


>What I consider Dork!Angel is exactly what you
>described below, and for the most part I like him.


Gotcha. Fair enough! =)

I
>thought it was kind of cute when Angel bounced over to
>Cordy to be bandaged, in many ways Angel is still a
>little boy, at least that's what I think.
>
>I think in terms of Angel characterization, a little
>light-heartedness balanced with a serious edge as seen
>with Lullaby is the best Angel I've seen.


Okay, we agree there. =) I don't mean to sound like I want Angel to be nothing but dark, depressed and broody all the time. I absolutely love it when he smiles due to "the little moments." Just as an example, one of my favorite parts *ever* is the very end of TSiLA when Wesley "properly" translates the Shanshu prophecy. Angel's face lights up with this small smile that shows genuine happiness and *hope*.. *sigh* It was one of the most beautiful expressions I've ever seen him make.. =)

But to further my point (I swear, I think I have one!!) the reason I LOVED it so was that it was classic reserved Angel. He just found out all his dreams and hopes and wishes etc etc etc were going to come true some day. Did he jump up and down for joy, or sing from the tallest buildings about how happy he was?? (And thank God for the latter.. *g*) No.. His reaction was reserved and subtle, but no less poignant IMO. You (or *I* at least!) very clearly saw that the news made him very happy. I didn't need to see him "goofily" skipping through the fields to get the point across.

You get what I mean?

Quite
>frankly, Brooding!Angel was kind of boring to me, so I
>was glad to see some dorkiness come his way. It made
>him more human to me.


Okay, it's all a preference thing. =) To quote my new fave saying, "De gustibus non est disputandeum" (loosely translating to in matters of taste there is no dispute).

And like I said, I certainly don't begrudge you and others a little dorkiness. Honestly, I'm sure I'd love little dorky moments or quirks too. (Point of fact, I LMAO in "War Zone" when Angel, trapped in that locker, forgot he had his cell phone with him and didn't bother to call for help..) Again, like I said, my problem is they seem to have taken over, and I couldn't find Brooding!Angel anywhere.. (I mean geeze!! Some sort of balanced mix is all I ask! ; ) ) JMO, but I feel Brooding!Angel should comprise a majority of his personality. He is a vampire.. housing one of the most sadistic, malicious and evil demons the world has ever known.. he was given his soul as a *punishment* so he would suffer horribly and eternally for what he did as said vampire.. Every past "clue" has led us to believe he is now following his destined Road of Redemption (pretty much by definition hard and angsty etc) to his final reward..
But the Angel I see now doesn't fit that characterization at all IMO, and I miss that. Obviously he can't be Brooding!Angel at all times all the way up to his reward, he absolutely must gradually change to truly be ready and deserving of it. But neither IMO can he suddenly just drop all the brooding and angst and be happy-go-lucky and goofy all the time either. If he's already happy and angst free, then what is, not only the point, but the otherwise amazing value of the gift he'll receive?? Like I said, gradual and a nice blend is all I'm looking for here!!! *GGG*


>Yes, you did. :) That's okay and I see some of your
>points. I think maybe this year is about Angel
>learning to take responsibility in terms of his past
>with Holtz and the safety of his child.


Very good thoughts there.. I love the possibilities and implications with it. =)

I've always
>felt that the fault of the Beige!Angel arc came from
>both Angel and the fang Gang. He should have told them
>about the dreams with Darla and they should have been
>a little bit more persistent and understanding about
>his relationship with Darla.


Oh do we *ever* agree there.. That was probably my biggest let down of S2. We were shown every little bit that led to Angel's fall and we felt very sympathetic towards him. We saw that the FG did absolutely nothing to help him. Both sides are definitely to blame (though I personally put more fault with the FG. Angel had over-bearing extenuating circumstances that hindered his "fixing of the problem," but there was *nothing* wrong with the FG), but the resolution to the entire thing painted Angel alone in the "bad, bad man" category, while the FG got off scot free (even having Angel get them *coffee*!!!) regarding their part in the break-up.. HATED that!


As for Billy, I felt
>sorry for Cordelia, but I felt that maybe this ep
>should have occured after Dead End as a followup to
>the "painful, killing visions" story-line.


JMO of course, but there are just soooo many things wrong with Poordy.. Mainly, I think Cordy works best in more of a comic relief character. But she does have her devout fans, so the writers respectfully have her flush-out and grow and deepen and whatnot to appease them. That's perfectly fine of course. The problem is how they do it.. How many times now have we seen "Cordy 'grows' by accepting her painful visions (YET AGAIN)???" And what is the upcoming "Birthday" all about?? Cordy and her painful visions of course!! *rolls eyes* It seems to be the only thing the writers can come up with for Cordy!

I think
>Angel did take responsibility of releasing Billy, but
>I think Angel's basically in reactive mode.


Just to clarify, are you saying that because he finally went after Billy in "Billy??" Or are you referring to more than that?



When the
>trouble comes knocking on his doorstep, he'll act, if
>it doesn't, he'll leave well enough alone.


Is that really all that good of a philosophy to have (considering his line of work) though?? Take a lesson from the Boy Scouts and Always Be Prepared!! *veg* Giles constantly researched and read through prophecies and the like so they would always know when Big Evil was headed their way. It kept them one step ahead when it finally did strike. Buffy goes out every night to patrol so that she can stop something horrible before it ever even has the chance to happen.. Angel relies on week-late visions (which sometimes take valuable time to interpret) to point him in the direction of danger?? Errrrmmmmm.. ; )

In reality,
>Billy should have been done right after That Vision
>Thing, and should have had scenes of Angel mentioning
>that he was keeping tabs on the street for being on
>the look-out for what W&H are planning to do with the
>released prisoner.


*Most* *Definitely*, and I can't tell you how very much I griped about that very fact on other boards.. *sigh*

Though in my perfect world, it wouldn't have even gotten that far.. Angel released Billy to Lilah. Lilah instructed Brain Guy to cease his attacks on Cordy. BG followed orders, Cordy was back to normal. Angel then immediately took out BG (the threat to Cordy), but left Billy (ya know, the evil and very dangerous one chosen to suffer eternally in Hell??) alone, scot-free, and in the hands of W&H.. In a way, it boils down to Angel negotiating with "terrorists." Fine, he was willing to do anything to save his friend, I can certainly understand that. But once the deal was done and she was safe, why did he not immediately follow BG's demise with Billy's?? The way it played, it gave the message that you can make Angel do anything you want if you attack his friends. Oh, and by the way, he'll kill you *next* *time* you do something like this.. This time? He'll let you walk away with a slap on the wrist and a fair warning!! ; ) The way I described it, it gives the message that he doesn't **** around and will play hardball with you. He is NOT your puppet and will kill to prove that to you. Which is the better reputation to have when dealing with something as "slimy" and ruthless as W&H?? =)


>All right, that's good. To rant in a calm, collected
>manner is of the good.


Good. I'm glad I didn't offend or anything. =)

This is just my opinion, but
>I've come to the idea that maybe Dork!Angel is a part
>of Angel's personality.


That's a definite possibility, but like I said (ad infinitum by now *g*), small, blended doses..

It's just that when we saw him
>in Season 1-3 of Buffy, he was basically there as
>Buffy's boyfriend and as the "tortured" vampire with a
>soul.
>
>Now, that he has his own show, we're all see new
>layers of Angel. The problem, I think, is that Angel
>is a very extreme kind of person, some even say
>bi-polar. If he feels he must be evil, then he'll be
>the uberevil. If he feels he must be good, then he'll
>be ubergood. If he feels the need to lighten up and be
>"happy", then he'll be the biggest goof on the planet,
>a cute goof, but a goof nonetheless.


So you've noticed this too, huh?? ; ) Almost the understatement of the millenium! *GGG*

Angel needs to
>learn how to balance out his personality. He's
>starting to do this with learning to accept and maybe
>even love his demonic nature. Now, what he needs to do
>is to learn how to deal with his inner humanity,
>because Angel wasn't exactly the greatest of humans
>around. Cordy was the first step in Angel connecting
>with humanity, hopefully, the baby will be the next
>step, provided they a) don't kill it, b) super-age it,
>and c) send it off to some dimension.


Can't argue with any of that! Wonderful thoughts there. =)



>
>Ditto! What year are you? I'm a senior.
>
>~Khali, off to read up on her next assignment.


I'm an overworked Junior; declared Physics major.. =) Probably a big part of the reason I love, though am also quite weary of, Fred. ; ) Love, cause hey.. (said in her completely not-at-all egotistical voice! *g*) physics majors are just cool! =) But weary as I sometimes have to cringe whenever we get into "scienceland.." *sigh* Where *do* they come up with that stuff anyway????? *bweg*


(And just because this post is probably long enough already, I'll just add my "thoughts" in a reply.. =)

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