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Date Posted: 13:45:19 10/30/01 Tue
Author: Debka
Subject: Russia Prepares One Million Army
In reply to: Nikolai von Kreitor 's message, "THE THIRD WORLD WAR" on 18:08:26 10/03/01 Wed

Russia Prepares 1-Million Man Army for Afghanistan
Foreign Affairs
Source: DEBKAfile
Published: 29 October Author: A DEBKAfile Exclusive
Posted on 10/30/01 4:43 AM Pacific by holman
The shape of the governments-to-be of Afghanistan and Iraq - “when the war is over” – seems to be uppermost in the minds of the US-led alliance engaged in the war against world terrorism. This may be a useful academic exercise, but while it is in process, the war itself shows strong signs of running out of steam. DEBKAfile’s military and intelligence experts ascribe this loss of momentum to two primary dilemmas: 1. In order to tackle its objectives of overturning the Taliban regime and rooting out Osama bin Laden’s terrorist apparatus, the United States needs to field a ground army of some 400,000 trained combat troops in Afghanistan alone. At a pinch, US and British strength combined amounts to less than a third of this figure – the 100,000 American troops stationed in bases around Afghanistan’s borders, the Persian Gulf and the Middle east, and another 20-35,000 British combat troops. 2. The United States and Britain have never invested in the kind of intelligence tools required for winning this war, focusing instead in recent years on satellite and electronic intelligence, which is of limited use in Afghanistan and the counter-terror campaign. America’s deficiency of ground forces for combating terrorism is the direct outcome oft the collapse of the international anti-terror coalition doctrine. The diplomacy employed by US secretary of state Colin Powell to muster this coalition stripped the United States of the fighting strength needed for the campaign itself. The four nations with the right kind of fighting strength are India, Taiwan, Israel and Turkey. The first three had to be counted out, while Turkey was only retained as a pro-American reserve for securing the Turkish-Iraqi frontier and standing by in case anti-US turbulence got out of hand in Central Asia and Pakistan. Therefore, Washington has painted itself into a corner with only two options: Declaring a military call up at home – partial, then full conscription, with all the political hazards entailed, or turning to the only other power which commands a substantial military force, whose enlistment will not jeopardize US long term goals - Russia. DEBKAfile’s sources in Moscow report that in the last ten days, the lights in the planning and operations departments of the Russian armed forces have burned brightly round the clock, as staff officers draft the blueprints for the Russian army’s return to Afghanistan in a manner very different from its dismal experience in the 1980s. This time, Russian troops will be going in on a huge scale to fight shoulder to shoulder with their erstwhile foes, the Americans. The Afghanistan intervention force will be made up of roughly quarter of a million combat troops and an equal number of rest air force, intelligence, logistical and services personnel. The conditions posed by Russian army chiefs for meeting President Vladimir Putin’s demand for this force were: A. The entire force would not be fully engaged before winter was over, ie April 2002. B. The United States would carry all the costs – not only for the creation and training of the Afghanistan expedition army, but also for setting up a comparable force for operation in the former Soviet republics of Central Asia and Chechnya. According to DEBKAfile’s Moscow informants, Putin bowed to the generals’ demands whereupon they went to work on the new venture without delay. This means that the Russian military staff is in the process of building a combat ground force one million strong.



Sounds like a plan to me. Not a happy prospect for the 'ol Taliban. A long winter. Americans and Britons owning the night and the mountains. An air traffic controller's nightmare with so many 20-something hotdogs screaming about looking for something to obliterate. A big fat million-man Russian land army controlling the roads and supply lines. And no escape to Pakistan refugee camps. That'll make you go limp with fear. With a force like that on your backside, OBL will be singing "Only The Lonely" 'cause not even Libya would want the kind of heat he is attracting. This puts a little emphasis on Bush and Putin meeting in Waco, Texas this month.

1 posted on 10/30/01 4:43 AM Pacific by holman
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To: holman
I would bet good money that over 90% of DEBKA's readership are also the same people who buy and believe the National Enquirer.

2 posted on 10/30/01 4:51 AM Pacific by SubSailor
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To: holman
By the way, this "article" has already been posted several times over the past few days.

3 posted on 10/30/01 4:53 AM Pacific by SubSailor
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To: SubSailor
According to my sources at MIB, The Enquirer and The Globe are the only sources of accurate information.

4 posted on 10/30/01 4:59 AM Pacific by appeal2
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To: appeal2
Russian units are already in country.

5 posted on 10/30/01 5:01 AM Pacific by holman
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To: holman
This was already posted yesterday. And, again, the Debkas FAIL to fully inform their readers.
The Debkas will NEVER tell you that I AM PREPARING a 100-MILLION ARMY for Afghanistan.
I can not give you the exact date for the invasion but... unles the Talib collapse before we march, it's coming people.

6 posted on 10/30/01 5:04 AM Pacific by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: SubSailor
DEBKA's readership are also the same people who buy and believe the National Enquirer.
But can Debka's readership read?

7 posted on 10/30/01 5:05 AM Pacific by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: holman
Debka ?????????????????????? Oh c'mon, besides, this article has already been posted.

8 posted on 10/30/01 5:05 AM Pacific by DreamWeaver
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To: holman
We've heard it, already. We beleive it when pigs fly.

9 posted on 10/30/01 5:08 AM Pacific by oyez
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To: DreamWeaver
then if I were you I'd rely upon CNN. It is a plausible piece and I am assigning weight to it. Putin needs help in Chechnya and we will need a conventional land force in Afghanistan, which is the size of Texas (and I live in Texas and I know what that means).

10 posted on 10/30/01 5:10 AM Pacific by holman
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To: oyez
when pigs fly

That would be the Taliban airforce.

11 posted on 10/30/01 5:11 AM Pacific by hsszionist
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To: hsszionist
If nothing else, It'll give those cave-dwellers something to talk about through the winter besides wearing out their stag movies and dreaming of the after life.

12 posted on 10/30/01 5:22 AM Pacific by holman
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To: holman
More DEBKA stupidity! What a joke! These people have no shame!

13 posted on 10/30/01 5:22 AM Pacific by AmericaUnited
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
This article also missed that we intend to ship the Million Mom Marchers to Russia to participate in a eugenics program with this "army", halting Russia's population slide. < /sarcasm>

14 posted on 10/30/01 5:27 AM Pacific by Tijeras_Slim
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To: holman
It might be a good idea for the west to just "hire" the Russian army to do it's dirty work.No criticism of our actions,no american dead or wounded,no worries of human rights violations. Russia needs the money and it would probably be much cheaper in the long run.

15 posted on 10/30/01 5:40 AM Pacific by johnny reb
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To: holman
Like I said in the two previous posts about this BS...



And I will say again when it's posted again!

16 posted on 10/30/01 5:47 AM Pacific by harpu
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To: harpu
You are you? The wicked witch of the East? It took us a year to mount an operation against Iraq. No, we need the Russians on this one. They're already there and they've been there before. Besides, there is no coalition. It's about time we added one more dog to the pack.

17 posted on 10/30/01 5:52 AM Pacific by holman
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To: holman
Is the kind of like the million man march in DC a few years ago?

18 posted on 10/30/01 6:00 AM Pacific by RickyJ
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To: holman
Were are they going to put them, next to the 400,000 PLA contingent coming over the silk road?

19 posted on 10/30/01 6:03 AM Pacific by Semper Paratus
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To: holman
Russia has not got the resources to create a 1-Million Man Army to fight in Afghanistan.
They are having enough problems dealing with Chechnya, and the Georgian Border war.
With desertions and AWOL and young men not turning up for military service they are increasingly forced to rely on a new type of soldier called a contract soldier or booty soldier who are paid in money goods vodka and loot.
The Russian army is very demoralised at the moment, and it will take a long time before it sorts itself out.
The Russian High command are rather enjoying the side show in Afghanistan after all it was America who supported the then freedom fighters, in there war against the Soviet Occupation, they are not in any hurry to come to Americas aid, many cut there teeth in the old Soviet Army and still have a Cold War attitude .
Tony

20 posted on 10/30/01 6:03 AM Pacific by tonycavanagh
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To: harpu
well, the poster of this thread is a newbie...

21 posted on 10/30/01 6:10 AM Pacific by Let's Roll
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To: Let's Roll
Oh ye of little faith.
Elements of the 203rd motorized rifle division are already in. How do I know that? I'd haveta kill ya (ha!).
We would bankroll the deal and they wouldn't be proxy soldiers. With or without them, we will be committing conventional foot units come spring and airbase force protection units before that. But girls, this is a bridge too far and if the Prez can cut a deal with Putin, then he'll do it.
And if the pay is good, every swingin' D who has combat experience will want to be in lovely Afghanistan during the Spring.
I am putting my dough on the nose of Putin.

22 posted on 10/30/01 6:39 AM Pacific by holman
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
You are all full of it end Debka is old newz...my division 444 Death to Islam Super Heavy Tanks iz already in Kabul, tomarrow we take Izlamabad den Beijing...we also super fast mountain climbing tanks...T-190U 400mm Plasma Electronic Discharge Cannon, 30mm Guess Co-axil, 3 8 missile rocket pods and a Novograd Krutni 10,000 horse power cold fusion engine...nothing stop us except damned Atlantians and Peter Pan Lost Boy brigades...but we get them good...long live Khalis and the Klingon Empire...er Russian Empire...what reality am I in again?

23 posted on 10/30/01 7:29 AM Pacific by Stavka2
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To: holman
WorldNetDaily has picked this story up
WorldNetDaily - U.S., UK realize Moscows troops essential for campaign
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25119

24 posted on 10/30/01 7:30 AM Pacific by holman
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To: Stavka2
Putin’s Bold Move
http://www.time.com/time/europe/eu/magazine/0,9868,180582,00.html
"It's in the best interest of Russia to make sure that the Central Asian states become really sovereign and stable," says Alexander Umnov, an authoritative Oriental scholar in Moscow. "Otherwise, Russia will never have stability along its Asian borders. New openings to the West will only enhance their stability." Says Dmitri Furman, director of the C.I.S. Research Center at the Russian Academy of Sciences' Institute of Europe: "It's quite obvious that the C.I.S. is disintegrating and Moscow will never be able to glue it back together once the U.S. steps in."

25 posted on 10/30/01 7:32 AM Pacific by holman
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To: holman
Got some news for you, in a Republic with a relatively free press...that's Russia if you didn't realize it, you don't just call up a million man army (which would be calling up the whole Russian army at this point) to deploy them into Afghanistan or anywhere else for that matter without a bit of...oh how should I put it...public debate (read really load bitching). Or didn't you know that England is paying America to launch a 10 million man invasion of the Lunanites over their breaking of the Green Cheese Treaty with the Spice Girls.

26 posted on 10/30/01 7:32 AM Pacific by Stavka2
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To: holman
Looks like trade bait to me . . .
World: Diplomat says Russia prepared to discuss changes in strategic cooperation with U.S.
http://www.nandotimes.com/world/story/160235p-1520129c.html
MOSCOW (October 29, 2001 6:58 p.m. EST) - Russia hinted again Monday that it could consider changing the key Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty which bans the Bush administration's plans to build a defense shield against incoming missiles. Two days before he leaves for Washington to meet with Secretary of State Colin Powell, Russia's foreign minister said Moscow was ready to talk about "new parameters" on strategic questions. "The situation in the world is changing, and our relations with the United States are changing. In the framework of these changes we are ready to discuss new parameters of strategic cooperation," Russian news agencies quoted Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov as saying late Monday night.

27 posted on 10/30/01 7:33 AM Pacific by holman
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To: johnny reb
Yes, because Russia just has one big for sale sign on it and will do anything for American money....NOT!

28 posted on 10/30/01 7:34 AM Pacific by Stavka2
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To: Semper Paratus
You know damn well that those PLA are only on their way to Sudan.

29 posted on 10/30/01 7:35 AM Pacific by Stavka2
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To: tonycavanagh
Hmm, Tony, get off the Slavobashing for a moment...the Russian Contract soldier is not a barter soldier but paid in Cash...you know, LIKE YOUR WHOLE ARMY...unless you consider all those Limies in Uniform just a bunch of blood thirsty mercenaries.

30 posted on 10/30/01 7:37 AM Pacific by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
You wanna race me to Kabul via Baghdad?

31 posted on 10/30/01 7:37 AM Pacific by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: holman
A linguist friend of mine informed me that "Debka" is Urdu for "clymer"..............

32 posted on 10/30/01 7:38 AM Pacific by tracer
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To: Stavka2
re : Or didn't you know that England is paying America to launch a 10 million man invasion of the Lunanites over their breaking of the Green Cheese Treaty with the Spice Girls.
So we are still riddled with KGB, dam ravens and swallows, and fellow travellers.
Tony

33 posted on 10/30/01 7:38 AM Pacific by tonycavanagh
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To: SubSailor
By the way, this "article" has already been posted several times over the past few days.
By my incomplete count that makes for at least3 million Russian soldiers so far. Must be something wrong with the search function, I think we usually have this problem with DEBKA articles.
patent +AMDG

34 posted on 10/30/01 7:39 AM Pacific by patent
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To: Stavka2
Gee. I guess they don't blame us for ramming the Kursk afterall . . .
Missile blast sank the Kursk, official confirms
http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/world.cfm?id=119826
Sergei Shargorodsky In Moscow
THE Russian official heading the government investigation into the Kursk disaster said yesterday that it was caused by one of the submarine’s torpedoes exploding. But the Russian deputy prime minister, Ilya Klebanov, speaking as bodies continued to be retrieved from the wreck, left open the possibility that the nuclear-powered submarine had also collided with an unspecified object.
Yeah, I guess it ran into Afghanistan

35 posted on 10/30/01 7:39 AM Pacific by holman
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To: holman
It's in Russia's interest to keep the Central Asian Republics part of Russia and without them they will deteriorate into the same Civil War that Uzbekistan fell apart in duirng the mid 90's...only the Russian soldiers put Humpty back togather again. Gee, and there is no debate, they just secretly round up and march a million soldiers to Afghanistan without anyone noticing, especially organizations like Conserned Mothers who monitor the military. Yup, you sure know a lot about Russia, I can damn well tell that.

36 posted on 10/30/01 7:40 AM Pacific by Stavka2
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To: holman
Ummm, I never made those quotes...would rather go against my MO to criticize the mother land to much, since I am Russian.

37 posted on 10/30/01 7:42 AM Pacific by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
re : Hmm, Tony, get off the Slavobashing for a moment.
On threads about the Soviet Union during the last war I am the first to point out how much the West owes Russia, and Serbia, as you know from discussions we have had.
Its just that we get a very one sided point of view here about the War in Chechnya, and the War in Bosnia, and I was in country for some of the worst of it Bosnia that is.
It is not Slav bashing to point out that the Russian Army is in a very bad shape, and fighting a very dirty war with a lot of corruption involving arms and drugs between the bandits and security forces.
As for the contract soldiers, many conscripts later interviewed have nothing good to say about them, many officers would rather not have them in there command.
The war in Chechnya is not going very well and the Russians with there heavy handed approach caused them self’s a lot of problems, potential friendly populations were turned into sullen non cooperative at best and partisans/terrorists at worst.
A Russian General I will get you his name, I have it somewhere at home likened it to the own goal the Germans scored when they first entered Russia, many people especially in the Ukraine, Byelorussia, white Russia, the Baltic and many other regions welcomed the Germans with open arms, it was the heavy handed approach of the Germans in occupation and pacification programs who turned the population from willing collaborators into willing recruits for the many partisan bands.
The Contract soldier is by no stretch of the imagination comparable to any Western soldier today, he has a lot more in common with the booty soldier of old.
I am still fascinated by Russia, and I realise that one day Russia will be a major player in the world again and she is needed as a balance for that part of the world.
But at the moment she has still got a way to go to shake of the old.
But I will lightened up a bit.
Tony

38 posted on 10/30/01 8:00 AM Pacific by tonycavanagh
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To: tonycavanagh
Thats funny Tony because I know and have served with plenty of contract soldiers...problem is is that in many such societies as the former communist regimes, the majority of the people see contract soldiers as mercenaries...read all Western contract soldiers as mercenaries hired by their own governments. Only the conscript system is seen as a "patriotic" system. I am not defending it, peace time conscription doesn't work. Those Generals are out to defend their asses from being sacked. A professional conscript army, like the VDV and Spetnaz are better then 5 or 6 compareble conscripts...this drops the number of generals needed as it drops the number of troops needed.
By the way, I was in Bosnia too. Granted I wasn't there for the fighting but I was there shortly afterwards and worked with Musli (my misfortune) and Serb alike. But happy days, I'll soon be getting to work with Afghans...with luck with the Taliban. I'm hoping to get to introduce them to the business end of a high powered rifle or maybe show them the miracle of modern communications when calling in an artillery strike.

39 posted on 10/30/01 9:40 AM Pacific by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
Wow.
We're deploying former Captains from the Armor Branch.
Guess we must have run out of Special Forces, huh?
Stick to the facts, and lay off the creative writing, Rodyna.

40 posted on 10/30/01 11:00 AM Pacific by Hoplite
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To: harpu
Hey, those flying pigs could come in darn handy when fighting Muslims, you know that?? Can they be trained to fly in squadrons?

41 posted on 10/30/01 11:03 AM Pacific by Anamensis
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