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Subject: Marist season ticket holders, question (MAAC tourney related)


Author:
Yankee
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Date Posted: 17:42:55 02/23/09 Mon

Ensor,the commissioner of the MAAC sent me this response in my question about "why did Siena season ticket holders get there same premium seats for the tourney?" In his response, he basically says all season ticket holders of all the colleges were offered the premium seats for all session passes as well. Can anyone confirm Marist offered these to you? If they didn't, Marist handled this badly. Here is his response.

Not correct. Been fielding emails for weeks from irate Siena fans that have not gotten their same seats. Fact is that the 175 tickets each school gets for each of their game sessions in the center courts sections displaces Siena season ticket fans.

Again, all schools had equal access for their season ticket holders, and then when public sales went on sale, all fans had access to all-sessions not bought by each school's season ticket holders. How each school handles their season ticket holders is their responsibility.


RJE

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Replies:
[> Subject: I really think this is a non issue.


Author:
Oldfox
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Date Posted: 18:22:36 02/23/09 Mon

If Marist couldn't sell 175 center court tickets then they blew it, and the tickets should go back in the pool. The league has an obligation to try to make a money.

As long as the tournament is at the TUC and Siena is playing, Siena fans will dominate the audience. If they shit the bed on Saturday or Sunday, other fans will have the seat of their choice anyway. Siena fans are no different than any other fans and I guarantee that 95% of them will have something better to do the next day if the Saints lose before the finals.

I did get a chuckle out of RJE's comment about fielding calls from irate Siena Fans regarding "their" same seats. They simply regard the tournament as just another Siena Home Game. Ironically, that is the same conclusion that most other fans have, but the perspective is 180 degrees, hence the tension.
[> [> Subject: oldfox, where is the "neutrality" thing they talked about


Author:
Yankee
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Date Posted: 18:27:06 02/23/09 Mon

You can only get those seats if you buy on a game to game basis. Why can't fans of other teams get all session passes in the best sections as well? Every team should be given a certain amount to sell, don't make the teams BUY them first. They sell what they can and then give whatever they didn't sell back to be sold to everyone. This would be moot if one fan of another team says they were offered center seat all session passes. Haven't seen that yet. MAAC comes out with some manifesto about trying to make things more neutral. How they doing that. Toilet paper with each teams logo?
[> [> [> Subject: Yes TP with logos.


Author:
Oldfox
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Date Posted: 20:48:02 02/23/09 Mon

The neutrality thing was nothing but eyewash. Belber the TUC GM was interviewed at the halftime Siena game at Marist (what does that tell you, he travels with the fucking team) about the "efforts" to make the TUC more hospitable to non-Siena Fans. He sounded like the village idiot trying to equate team colored festoons to some sort of counterbalance to a team with an almost permanent home court advantage in the 3-4 most important games of the season.

Siena's got the fan base and they will part with their money to see their boys play. The league can only make money with the tourney at the TUC, and the league would be crazy not to take advantage of it. So change the banners in the lobby from gold to red. Whoopdie Damn Do.

Nobody in their right mind can deny that placing the tourney at the TUC on a regular basis doesn't help Siena recruit, but again the league could give a rat's ass because Siena is the tournament's cash cow. The longer the Saints stay in the bracket, the happier the league office is. It is a damn shame that the tourney can only be a financial success when its held on the home court of a single league member but that is the way it is. The league office is a defacto Siena fan when it comes to the Men's tournament and to do anything else would be working against their own financial self interest.

The TUC is very good at running the show. They should be, shit, they have had the opportunity almost a dozen times. It's not fair to any other venue to be given a one and done scenario because of the built in fan base in Albany. Maybe this 3 year contract idea has some merit since it will take some time for a new venue to roll out a program in a community or a resort to work it into their ad planning. But in the meantime the league is probably leaving good money on the table.

The only sure solution is for the Marist team to get better, something that will begin for real next November.

Yours in resigned frustration,

Oldfox
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Yes TP with logos.


Author:
????
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Date Posted: 23:09:00 02/23/09 Mon

most of what you say in this post makes sense.

can't see how you can find fault with bob belber though. even more than the maac, the tuc wants siena to win every game. not only because they get more money by having more people at games on saturday, sunday and monday, but if siena goes to tournament, the following season's ticket sales should get a huge bump as well. if siena gets 1,000 more fans per game, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they arena makes a lot more money. at an average of $20 per ticket x 1,000 fans x 13 games = $260,000 for the TUC to share with Siena.

if you don't think bob belber is in his office praying for siena victories, you are nuts. he has a huge vested interest in siena's success as it contributes greatly to his bottom line. and i am not sure what that matters. i don't think any championships are going to be won or lost by what colors the banners in the lobby are or who the gm of the arena is rooting for. i am sure the gm of hsbc is rooting for a combination of niagara/canisius/siena in the final when in buffalo, but it doesn't matter. he is the host of the tournament and does whatever ensor tells him to. he and the tuc are great hosts for this event.

and btw...no matter where this tournament is held outside of albany, it will be a bust, no matter how much they include it in their "ad planning", etc. buffalo loses $100k+ and they have two schools within 30 minutes.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Belber should pray in private.....


Author:
Oldfox
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Date Posted: 19:36:09 02/24/09 Tue

was my point.

I'm also not gonna dismiss the idea that a three year contract doesn't have an outside chance for another venue, especially a destination attraction/resort like the Mohegan Sun. It will be interesting to see if they bid, or did bid, (sorry don't recall the timeline) just how they plan to market the tournament as part of their destination attractions and what they might want to co-promote with the tournament. It probably also means that they think there is an reachable untapped market for the tournament outside of MAAC fans, since I'm sure they already know what the attendance history of the tournament outside of Albany has been.

The one and done is rotation was not fair (there is that word again) to the other venues, and while it might not make a bit of difference in the case of the HSBC, SBA or some other city or region whose residence have better things to do than spend their entertainment dollars on a middling level basketball tournament, maybe it can catch on in a destination setting like the Sun.

I can't imagine why the MAAC wouldn't want to find another place in addition to the TUC where they could turn a profit regardless of whether the $ are ponied up by basketball fans, Gamblers, the curious or any combination of the former.

JMHO
[> Subject: Re: Marist season ticket holders, question (MAAC tourney related)


Author:
????
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Date Posted: 20:32:19 02/23/09 Mon

Yankee, that is not correct. You, or any other MAAC fan could buy all-sessions in the good seats. Per Ensor's email to you "Again, all schools had equal access for their season ticket holders, and then when public sales went on sale, all fans had access to all-sessions not bought by each school's season ticket holders."

The reason why Siena fans are upset is because the MAAC in a way to sell more tickets for the tourney in Albany used to give fans the opportunity to "Add-on" MAAC Tourney All-Sessions in their season ticket purchase in August/September. This was smart because a lot of people who purchased them, who maybe could not end up going, purchased seats that would not have been sold if they didn't make the offer. As much as you would like to spin it as Siena fans thinking they are great and should get everything, that is not the case. The MAAC set a precendent that it has now disbanded and many long-term siena fans are upset that they league doesn't make the same offer as years past. Personally, if I was a Siena fan, I'd be pissed too. The only reason why the league isn't doing that is because 10-15 people will complain about equality when there school brings less than 200 people to the tournament. So then the Siena fan that pays $750 per seat for good Siena season tickets is told they can't purchase them for the tournament and then since the school they were on hold for can't sell them (see Marist, Iona, St. Peters, Canisius, Niagara, Fairfield, Rider, Manhattan and Loyola), they see some other Siena fan (one who probably doesn't even have season tickets) in their seats.

Bottom line, don't blame Siena and don't blame the MAAC. Marist's or your lack of planning is to blame. This "everything should be equal" routine is getting old. If you want things to be equal, bring 3,000 fans to the tournament. For christ's sake, Marist is 90 minutes away!!! It's is Siena's burden to make the tournament a financial success. Then you guys complain because Siena fans purchased the tickets that Marist and 8 other schools couldn't or chose not to sell. Without Siena's fans, the tournament would be played in the small on-campus gyms in front of 1/6 the crowd. If you want that, you should move back to the mickey-mouse league Marist came from.
[> Subject: Hey question mark fella, its crap and you know it.


Author:
Yankee
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Date Posted: 21:01:08 02/23/09 Mon

Their would be more outrage if the rest of the dang league hadn't become resigned to the fate under this commissioner who is a complete shill for one team. He wants a Gonzaga and he will go out of his way to get one. I do not blame Siena fans one bit for this. I blame either Marist for not offering the tickets or the MAAC for giving season ticket holders their same tickets without a shot for other fans teams who wanted all session passes.
[> [> Subject: Hey Yankee, maybe ????? is the Commish.


Author:
Oldfox
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Date Posted: 21:17:11 02/23/09 Mon

but it couldn't be since he claims not to be a Siena Fan. The post actually further supports my argument that the league is in bed with Siena, again it makes perfect sense to do so, when he pines for the day that Siena fans could pre-order their seats 6 months before any other fan had a chance. I'd be pissed too if someone told me, "it was the conference tournament and not your teams 10th league home game".
[> [> Subject: IS IT REALLY CRAP, OR ARE YOU JUST CLUELESS????


Author:
????
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Date Posted: 22:48:31 02/23/09 Mon

i would doubt that ensor only wants a gonzaga. i also doubt that siena could become a gonzaga. they can be one of the best mid-majors on a consistent basis but gonzaga is on another level that will never be reached by siena or any other maac school. as they currently stand, the maac schools are just too small to invest the funds needed to become gonzaga. in siena's case, the school is less than half the size of gonzaga and has been established for half as many years. gonzaga's financial support can never be matched by siena, so there is no way they can consistently compete with them. there is a reason why st. peters is bad almost every year, its their budget!!!

what Ensor wants is obvious.

he wants to make money or at the very least, not lose money (like the tournament does every year it is not in albany). he wants people (not just siena fans) to purchase all session passes. if enough siena fans do this, it doesn't matter if siena wins it all or loses saturday, so that is why he pushes all-sessions to siena fans. if the tickets are purchased, the maac makes money and that means the most to ensor (his performance is judged in large part by the finances of the league, which includes monies distributed to member schools by conferernce). however, i would suspect that in most seasons, ensor and the rest of the maac staffers are rooting for the best team because that is how they can make more money. the ncaa pays the league each year for the amount of ncaa games they have had over the past 5 years. if you send one team each year for 5 years and they lose in the first round each year, the maac receives 5 "units". since siena won last year, the maac will receive 2 "units" for 2007-2008 season alone, hence increasing their "take" by at least 20% per year for the next 4 seasons. therefore, if the maac sends their best team to the ncaa, the maac has their best chance of getting a win and adding directly to their (and member schools)pocketbooks. since the money that comes into the maac from the ncaa tournament is shared equally among its members, you and i are also rooting for the best team to win the maac championship (if our team doesn't). in addition to the extra $$$, the league and school get millions of dollars worth of free publicity, etc. this year, things are a little different. with niagara showing that it is a viable contenter and potential first round upset possibility, i would bet anything that ensor is hoping siena wins out and loses to niagara in the maac championship. this would give the league the best chance at getting two teams into the ncaa tournament (i admit a mild longshot for siena at-large). if maac gets two teams into to tournament they get two "units" automatically for 2008-2009 season. if they both won, that would give them four "units", and so on. so it is easy to see how the maac can benefit a lot more by siena losing in championship then winning. since the odds of siena or niagara winning a game against a top-25 team on a neutral court are both low, the best situation for the maac is to get the extra "unit" through having two teams in dance.

so, in summary, if you think ensor wants siena to win, you better think again. the only thing ensor wants is the $100+ for each seat in the arena and he doesn't care who buys them. i can't see how you or anyone else expect him to jeopardize the financial take of the tournament by holding the best seats (that can be easily sold to public)for people that historically don't show up. they are already losing money by no longer letting season ticket holders purchase their season location as i know a lot of people purchase session by session or wait for potential game monday to change in policy.


anyways, hopefully this can clear up some of the confusion around the situation and not lead to more spin and unfounded complaining...
[> [> [> Subject: wheres exclamation mark, question mark is very full of himself


Author:
Yankee
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Date Posted: 23:36:59 02/23/09 Mon

The MAAC is not Siena and 9 other teams. In fact, historically Marist dominates in the athletics. Please refer to President cup trophies. Siena has a nice mens basketball program. But,heck, Marist even has gotten farther than Siena in basketball. Please refer to the womens trip to the sweet sixteen. I know some neanderthals in Loudonville think womens basketball doesn't count, because "its not fair they take away from our men, waaah". Ensor is a complete fraud. He has allowed the TUC to demand Siena season ticket holders get all the good all session passes because they "rescued" this tourney I would bet. He is kissing their behinds because they took over when Rider and jersey screwed up. Very simple. You don't make the other teams BUY the tickets first. You allow them to offer tickets to fans of other teams and if they don't sell any, then TUC sells to whoever they want. That is not what happened. Unfortunately in Ensors quest to have a Gonzaga on the mens side, he basically is Sienas puppy on a leash. Its disgusting and he needs to get out. He is now setting it up so Siena and the TUC gets the MAAC tourney from 2012-2014 as well. He knows that by making it a 3 year committment that most venues can't do that. He is a shill for one team and its pure crap.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: wheres exclamation mark, question mark is very full of himself


Author:
????
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Date Posted: 17:16:15 02/24/09 Tue

wow!!! you have very poor comprehension skills. anyways, good luck on your future whining. since facts are not understood here, it is a waste of time.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: you smell question mark, bye


Author:
Yankee
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Date Posted: 18:44:18 02/24/09 Tue

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: you smell question mark, bye


Author:
????
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Date Posted: 11:10:20 02/26/09 Thu

facts and reason are a b*tch aren't they oldman????
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You talking to me?


Author:
Oldfox
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Date Posted: 20:45:35 02/26/09 Thu


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