| Subject: Ok Paul; wrestle, wrestle, wrestle: |
Author:
Rufus
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Date Posted: 21:42:01 04/09/02 Tue
In reply to:
PAUL.
's message, "More ignorance,(for Rufus)" on 23:47:13 04/07/02 Sun
>Depends on what
>the source is and what the argument is.How many
>answers do we need to the same argument? My faith is
>the bible,why do I need to look elsewhere?
Paul, someone needs to tell you that your reasoning is a direct path to ignorance. Using your above logic, someone like you "has" an opinion on evolution, even though they have never read a single article about it. An opinion and a "BELIEF" should be derived from reason, logic, evidence and such: not 'emotion'.
> but the
>existence of God is a hundred times more credible than
>any other explanation for mans existence ive
>heard,
And more ignorance, Paul: you say that you only need one source of information: the bible. Is the bible going to say "hey, I don't know how the world started, but follow my words anyways"? NO, the bible says: "God did it".
One must read other sources and become familiar with them before one can honestly and logically state that they "have thought it over after extensive research, and determined that"......(enter answer here).
>What really bothers me is just how many
>people have been conned into believe in the rather
>silly idea of evolution
How well versed are you in the theory of evolution, Paul? I am quite well versed and invite you to debate this silly con. If you refuse, you are stating nothing more that the fact that you are ignorant about this theory, have no opinion on it's validity, and should keep your mouth shut since you only reflect the ignorance your mind is entrapped in.
I'll make it easy on you: lets discuss the idea of Punctuated Equilibrium and how it 'attempts' to explain the gaps in the fossil record. I'll even explain it to you if you would like: then we could discuss why you feel it is a fairy tale....or at least why you think it is a theory that is less palatable than creationism.
and despite the fact that 90%
>of its imagination seem incapable of considering any
>opposing ideas.
I do not understand this, Paul.
>This substantial evidence you say
>science has offered up just doesnt exist,trust me.
I'm not even sure I would trust your interpretation of bible scripture, Paul; much less any pertinent information dealing with the theory of evolution!
You
>said you dont accept faith in the light of this
>evidence
Not what I said at all: I don't believe in religion, Paul. I still wonder about the existence of an entity that might have caused the big bang, arguable, 12 billion years ago.
>but it takes just as much,more faith to
>believe in evolution than in God.
I tend to disagree, Paul: if evolution explained only 10% of what happened here on earth, this would be "evidence". Evolution explains more than 10 %, in my opinion. Even if it explained 1%, Paul; this is more than the evidence offered by the bible for the existence of a God. If man wants to explore the idea of a God, I believe he must first accept the idea that this "entity" did not wish "religion" upon us.
You ask why I believe
>in evolution as a fairy tale? Because like all fairy
>tales it was created in the minds of man,it works from
>the simple premise that Animal A looks like Animal B
>so Animal A must be evolved from Animal B,Great,what
>brilliant scientific reasoning.LOL.
For the record, Paul: your above statements demonstrate how truly ignorant about evolution you are. Analogy: the grass is green because it looks like other things that are green.
The explanation for "green" does not exist in the answer, in case you missed my point. Evolution is quite complex, Paul; "YEARS" would need to be spent in order for one to even offer up a contribution to this theory.....why am I explaining this to you?.....I must be nuts for wasting my time like this......you really don't see the ignorance in your opinions, Paul, do you?
What are
>you going to do when God makes his prescence
>known?,your definately not ready for that.
Wrong assertin, again, Paul. I am ready because I have an open mind. I post on atheist sites and argue with them (voy.com/27358/ click on archive #2 if you'd like a different view of how I think!....careful, this site is not for the family, if you know what I mean. I also post on a site that is arguable, the most intelligent discussion on voy.com: voy.com/22190/ .......yes, Paul: ben's board: I've caught your impressive spectacles there, too. Do you realize that you are posting to people with some serious credentials over there?
Anyway, Paul: my mind is quite open and I do not rule very many things out: except for JW's!!!!!!!!
=====As for
>the big bang,who said I dont believe in it? But
>question is,What or WHO set it off?
Yes, Paul; I've stated here earlier that this is what interests me. Care to discuss what quantum mechanics has to say on the matter? Or we could discuss what your faith believes: God did it: not much to discuss, is there?
>Rufus lets get this straight,I dont want my own
>ideas or opinions,
Well, say no more, Paul.....you let that little book do your thinking for you. I take it back, you can't be as ignorant as you appear to be......you just can't.
I WANT THE TRUTH wherever that
>lies.
Wherever, Paul?.....like in evolution? Quantum mechanics? A Universal theory that explains "all"? Your little book won't allow you to explore other possible "truths"...so once again, Paul; I implore you: please realize that your opinion on matters of science is not fixed to a realm of cognitive level appropriate and valuable during relevant debate of any pertinent issue or concept
.
=====You said "You do not acknowledge my religion
>and you think its absurd" Then you ask "If you live a
>good moral life,will you be one of the chosen?"Gain
>Gods favour without acknowledging him?JOHN3*16/17*3.
>Errrrm NO!
1. how would not acknowledging "your" faith not land me a position as one of the chosen? Problem 1 with your faith: a good, moral person does not live out eternity with God?
In case you were wondering Paul: this is kind of sad. God is perfect: the act of not choosing a good moral person is imperfect: since this God offered no real reason to believe in Him: no proof of His existence other than a book. This should not be enough....it is for you, not for me: why should I go to hell because I want more proof?
=====At the end of your post you say the
>groundwork is already being set and all we have to do
>is open our eyes,Groundwork for what?
Groundwork to show that evolution is farther along the scale of "proof" than imagined. Religious people are not ready for this Paul....acceptance would have to be a very slow process or serious chaos would ensue. I imagine one thing that could be done would be to have people cruise religious sites and determine the nature of the tolerance of acceptance accorded to "Evolution Theory".
What level of insanity do you attribute to tv documentaries Paul? The science channel, the discovery channel? These documentaries reflect evolution as proven, not theory at all. Satan's work?
==And you say
>people like me and my beliefs with my refusal to
>believe anything contrary is stopping man from
>progressing to further enlightenment,What
>enlightenment and how? Be precise.
Man will progress toward enlightenment at a much faster pace if religion could be relegated to where it belongs: alongside the other great historic novels man has written. If nothing else, Paul: the conflicts in the world would not be faught in the name of religion anymore. I wonder what people will fight about if not about religion:
==You said this
>enlightenment may ironically lead to a life where we
>are capable of living in a manner consistent with my
>beliefs,What,worshipping the one true God Jehovah on a
>paradise earth forever,I dont think so somehow
>Rufus.
No, Paul: consistent with your beliefs is the idea of morality and doing good and loving and singing about glory and peace.....a Utopic world.
Perhaps the bible is a metaphor Paul, a warning that we should all live a certain way in order to optimize man's chances for success. It is a METAPHOR Paul. Man's message to future generations: think about the many translations!!!. We keep blowing it out of proportion because there is, was and always will be, a need to do this!
Accepting this is simply having an open mind to explore other ideas: not even necessarily "truth", of course. But accepting the idea simple allows one to maintain this open mind....the end.
>.....,but truth is the cure and I carry the remedy
>in my hand 'Gods word the bible.'==You really dont
>seem interested it truth Rufus,
It always astounds me when people post to other people about what "they" think "I" am seeking. I'm not seeking truth because I don't want to hold a bible in my hands.
This bible is "truth"......but I am the one trying to fit preconceived facts into my sense of what is truth? I hope I have made the sad and ironic ignorant nature of your comment quite plain to you.......but I shall not hold my breath.
you seem to be looking
>for truth to fit in with your preconcieved ideas,truth
>just doesnt work like that.
Yes, I know, Paul.......you, on the other hand, epitomize the very assertion you have accused me of: if you disagree.....then you are an example of why absurdities and falacies are allowed to manifest themselves firmly in the belief systems that are man.
=====You say maybe God did
>create all this(he did) but that he never wanted to be
>worshiped,thats what I mean,your building a god to
>your image instead of looking for truth,you wont find
>it that way.
No, these are just ideas I pursue, Paul.....I discuss the nature of all kinds of different ideas and pursue the logic in them....if there is any; But thanks for the philosophy lesson.
On Jehovah Witness faith: exactly who or whom is building a God to their image? You avoided the reference to the substantial history and impact of your faith since 1914. It's great to start a faith 1,914 years after the birth of Christianity and write wonderfully colourful statements like your's above and think them to be logical.
Adieu, Paul......it's been a slice.
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