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| Subject: Surely our great capitalist economy can't be to blame for the problems it causes! | |
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Author: jw |
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Date Posted: 19:50:46 06/10/07 Sun In reply to: Oropan 's message, "FOR BEV AND L" on 06:18:31 06/07/07 Thu If we do get a catastrophic warming this century, say 5 or more degrees farenhieght, it will just be mere coincidence that it was predicted by scientists in the late 20th century based on the pollution produced by our economy. Of course a catastrophic climate shift that has not happened for millions and perhaps tens of millions of years just happened to occur at the same time the capitalist economy was pumping huge amounts of carbon into the atmosphere, the two events can not be related. BLAME THE SUN! Btw, the idea that solar activity is causing global warming on mars is heavily disputed, although the corperate media rarely reports this. This review of the debate on the cause of martian warming is from wikipedia, under "mars global warming" ________________________________________________________ Attribution Colaprete et al. conducted calculations with the Mars General Circulation Model which show that the local climate around the Martian south pole may currently be in an unstable period. This computer calculated instability is rooted in the geography of the region, leading the authors to speculate that the melting of the polar ice is a local phenomenon rather than a global one[26]. The researchers showed that even with a constant solar luminosity the poles were capable of jumping between states of depositing or losing ice - the trigger for a change of states could be either due to increased dust loading in the atmosphere or an albedo change due to a deposition of water ice on the polar cap.[27] This theory is somewhat problematic due to the lack of ice depositation after the 2001 global dust storm[28] K.I. Abdusamatov of the Pulkovo Observatory has attributed the changes to increased levels of solar activity, asserting that "parallel global warmings -- observed simultaneously on Mars and on Earth -- can only be a straightline consequence of the effect of the one same factor: a long-time change in solar irradiance."[29] Abdusamatov's hypothesis has not been accepted by other scientists. Amato Evan, a climate scientist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, stated "the idea just isn't supported by the theory or by the observations." Charles Long, a climate physicist at Pacific Northwest National Laboratories who studies radiative transfer, says "That's nuts...It doesn't make physical sense that that's the case."[30] Other scientists have proposed that the observed variations are caused by irregularities in the orbit of Mars.[31] In recent decades solar activity has however been relatively stable, (1978-2006 TSI ranges 1365-1368 Wm2)[32] though researchers at the Max Planck Institute have inferred that solar activity over the past 60 to 70 years may have been at its highest level in 8,000 years [33]. Others have suggested that comparably high levels of activity have occurred several times in the last few thousand years. [34] Alternatively, it has been argued that "observed regional changes in south polar ice cover are almost certainly due to a regional climate transition, not a global phenomenon, and are demonstrably unrelated to external forcing."[20] Writing in Nature, Oliver Morton said "The warming of other solar bodies has been seized upon by climate sceptics; but oh how wrong they are. .. On Mars, the warming seems to be down to dust blowing around and uncovering big patches of black basaltic rock that heat up in the day"[35][36] >st trying to show you what scientist and NASA are >saying: > >Mars Is Warming, NASA Scientists Report > >Data coincide with increasing solar output >Written By: James M. Taylor >Published In: Environment News >Publication Date: November 1, 2005 >Publisher: The Heartland Institute > > >------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------- > >The planet Mars is undergoing significant global >warming, new data from the National Aeronautics and >Space Administration (NASA) show, lending support to >many climatologists' claims that the Earth's modest >warming during the past century is due primarily to a >recent upsurge in solar energy. > > >Martian Ice Shrinking Dramatically > >According to a September 20 NASA news release, "for >three Mars summers in a row, deposits of frozen carbon >dioxide near Mars' south pole have shrunk from the >previous year's size, suggesting a climate change in >progress." Because a Martian year is approximately >twice as long as an Earth year, the shrinking of the >Martian polar ice cap has been ongoing for at least >six Earth years. > >The shrinking is substantial. According to Michael >Malin, principal investigator for the Mars Orbiter >Camera, the polar ice cap is shrinking at "a >prodigious rate." > >"The images, documenting changes from 1999 to 2005, >suggest the climate on Mars is presently warmer, and >perhaps getting warmer still, than it was several >decades or centuries ago," reported Yahoo News on >September 20. > > >Solar Link Possible > >Scientists are not sure whether the Martian warming is >entirely due to Mars-specific forces or may be the >result of other forces, such as increasing solar >output, which would explain much of the recent >asserted warming of the Earth as well. > >Sallie Baliunas, chair of the Science Advisory Board >at the George C. Marshall Institute, said, "Pluto, >like Mars, is also undergoing warming." However, >Baliunas speculated it is "likely not the sun but >long-term processes on Mars and Pluto" causing the >warming. However, until more information is gathered, >Baliunas said, it is difficult to know for sure. > >Pat Michaels, past president of the American >Association of State Climatologists and senior fellow >at the Cato Institute, similarly expressed a desire >for more information about the Martian climate. "What >is the internal dynamic that is warming Mars?" asked >Michaels. "Given the fact that there are not a lot of >anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions on Mars, and >given the fact that new research indicates that 10 to >30 percent estimated conservatively of Earth's recent >warming is due to increased solar output, the Martian >warming may support that new research." > > >Models May Be Wrong > >The new research mentioned by Michaels is the October >2 release of findings by Duke University scientists >that "at least 10 to 30 percent of global warming >measured during the past two decades may be due to >increased solar output rather than factors such as >increased heat-absorbing carbon dioxin gas released by >various human activities." > >"The problem is that Earth's atmosphere is not in >thermodynamic equilibrium with the sun," Duke >associate research scientist Nicola Scafetta explained >in a Duke University news release. Moreover, "the >longer the time period [that the Earth's atmosphere is >not in thermodynamic equilibrium] the stronger the >effect will be on the atmosphere, because it takes >time to adapt." > >Examining a 22-year interval of reliable solar data >going back to 1980, the Duke scientists were able to >filter out shorter-range effects that can influence >surface temperatures but are not related to global >warming. Such effects include volcanic eruptions and >ocean current changes such as El Niņo. > >Applying their long-term data, the Duke scientists >concluded, "the sun may have minimally contributed >about 10 to 30 percent of the 1980-2002 global surface >warming." > >"[Greenhouse] gases would still give a contribution, >but not so strong as was thought," Scafetta observed. > > >Several Forces Affect Temperature > >"We don't know what the sun will do in the future," >Scafetta added. "For now, if our analysis is correct, >I think it is important to correct the climate models >so that they include reliable sensitivity to solar >activity." > >Iain Murray, senior fellow and global warming >specialist at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, >said the Mars warming adds another level of >uncertainty to claims that the Earth's modest recent >warming is a result of human activity. "It is probably >too much to claim that any one source is the principal >driver of the warming trend on Earth," said Murray. > >"The number of significant temperature forcings on the >climate system grows yearly as we get to know more and >more about it, but we really are at a very early stage >of our exploration of this very complex system," >Murray noted. "If all the estimates are true about the >relative effects of forcings like the sun, black >carbon, and greenhouse gases, then it is quite >possible that we would have been in a sharply cooling >phase over recent years were it not for these >forcings. In which case, one might say, thank goodness >for global warming!" > > >------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------- > >James M. Taylor (taylor@heartland.org) is managing >editor of Environment & Climate News. > > > > > > > > > > >> >>No oceans, trees etc and therefore it is a hot planet? >> What is your point? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |