The shepherd and sheep relationship -- RSQUBF discussion forum

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, [2], 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 15:50:50 02/01/05 Tue
Author: PECAS
Subject: The shepherd and sheep relationship
In reply to: human 's message, "dark message..." on 16:53:39 01/31/05 Mon

This is an excerpt from the message based on John 8:12-30.

"We must accept Jesus' words. Jesus is from above and we are from below. Jesus says that we are sinners and he is our only Savior. But the people of our time never want to believe something that does not match with their feelings. There is a person who tries to understand Jesus by projecting his own feelings on Jesus. He cannot know Jesus on the basis of his feelings. Rather, he can develop many mythical gods like the Greeks did. This young man must simply accept Jesus' words. He must admit that his problem is a sin problem and that only Jesus can solve it. There was a young man who was very selfish. But he did not feel selfish. So he did not think he was selfish. One day his shepherd told him, "You are selfish. Repent." But he thought, "No, shepherd, you just don't understand me." Then his shepherd asked him to look objectively at his behavior. He was eating very regularly while his roommate was often going hungry. He was steadily gaining weight, while his roommate was getting more and more skinny. He saw this with his eyes, but he was still not convinced that he was selfish because he did not feel selfish. However, since his shepherd was so intensely trying to help him, he decided to accept his shepherd's words by faith for the sake of their relationship. After doing so, his spiritual eyes began to open. He could see clearly that he was a very selfish sinner. It was the beginning of his healing."

This paragraph discusses a UBF member (sheep) who was rebuked for selfishness by his shepherd. At first, the UBF member did not feel as though he was selfish, so he rejected the idea. But because of the shepherd's persistence in rebuking him, the UBF member (sheep) accepted that he was selfish. The conclusion is that the UBF member has experienced a spiritual healing. Based on the above paragraph, the sheep appears to have confessed his selfishness because his shepherd kept telling the sheep repeatedly that he was selfish. The sheep confessed selfishness because he no longer wanted to argue about it with his shepherd. This alone is not a spiritual healing, but a common practice in UBF. Rather than to step back a pray for God to work in the lives of UBF members, UBF shepehrds constantly push the sheep with endless arguments and rebukes until the sheep gives in and gives lipservice to repeentance. In order for people to repent of their selfishness or any other sin, God must work in their lives. However, UBF focuses on the work on men (shepherds) rather than God.

Another point, UBF promotes in the above paragraph is to obey your shepherd. Claiming that your shepherd has delivered a rebuke to you because he misunderstood you is dismissed as making assessments based on feelings. Sheep should obey their shepherd's direction without question. Again, there is no connection between the sheep and God, but only between the sheep and the shepherd. The conclusion in UBF is that if your shepherd gives you a rebuke, than it must be true.

Finally, if the shepherd observes that his sheep's roommate is lacking food, the shepherd would provide a better example to his sheep by taking the initiative himself to offer food to the sheep's roommate before rebuking the sheep.

In Christ,

PECAS

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Shepherding abuse and miracle healings -- Anonymous, 15:13:01 02/02/05 Wed
- Re: Shepherding abuse and the UBF diet -- Joe, 20:03:27 02/02/05 Wed