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Date Posted: 12:09:17 09/21/04 Tue
Author: Chris
Subject: Re: UBF "apologies"
In reply to: former 's message, "Karcher Rubbing Salt in Wounds of UBF People Again" on 09:05:26 09/21/04 Tue

Typical for UBF is that though it is adumbrated that the problem may be on the side of UBF (with the words "perhaps the sins of others were not dealt with") there is no kind of excuse or apology whatsover. Instead, he "prays for us."

I remember an occasion where I had a struggle with a UBF "missionary." After a "daily bread" session, he demanded that I stay in the center and take part in a group meeting, but I could not take part for certain reasons. When I refused to "obey" and give in, but walked right away out of the door, he followed me angrily and wanted to beat me. Then he pause for a moment (maybe he saw that I was in a mood where I would punch back), and instead of beating me, he vent his wrath on my bike, kicking it until it was completely demolished. I let him know that he had to repair the bike or buy a new one and went away. I also indicated that I would leave UBF. Maybe he recognized that he made a mistake, because I was a precious UBF recruit, and repaired my bike. Then he asked for a talk which was supposed to be a begging for pardon, but I was amazed that he never really apologized, but always told about how he prayed for me. Very similar as this prayer of Karcher. To all those in UBF who spiritually abused us and many, many others: We don't need your prayers, we need your apology. And you don't need to pray to God until you repent. He won't listen to you anyway unless you repent.

Another typical UBF thing ist that he stresses to find "find a meaningful work from God" and to "work out your salvation" several times. UBF is a shame-based and works-based ministry.

Please try to properly understand the phrase "work out your salvation." It speaks about the process of sanctification, it does not teach that WE can do anything to earn our salvation as UBF suggests. This is already clear from the second half of the verse: "... for it
is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."

If you google for "work out your salvation", you will find some good (some less good) explanations, for example here or here,
or here or here or here.

If we were saved by works and could add anything to our salvation, the Bible would contradict itself. We are not saved by works. This is a misunderstanding of Philippians 2:12, just as it is a misunderstanding of 1 Timothy 2:14 to claim that "the women are saved by childbearing" (I have met a church where this is really preached - they are not focussed on recruiting people but on childbearing.)

We have to learn to read the Bible as a whole and understand each verse using proper hermeneutics and in line with the overall Biblical teaching.

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