Re: Experiences in Saudi Arabia -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 13:03:11 08/04/04 Wed
Author: UBFree
Subject: Re: Experiences in Saudi Arabia
In reply to: Chris 's message, "Re: Experiences in Saudi Arabia" on 10:33:43 08/04/04 Wed

Well, your right this topic is too sophisticated for this board. Another board is probably a good idea. Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't know about Europe but in America "Environmentalism" has become a secular relgion all its own.(almost like pagan worship) Many of the people who practice it include violence in their worship.

There is nothing wrong with recycling but many environmentalist have such an arrogance about it, it really puts people off. Again there is legitimate debate about whether GW is really happening. Here is one interesting site: http://www.sitewave.net/news/

Some interesting quotes:"The amount spent on climate studies worldwide has now reached the astonishingly high level of about $5 billion per year.1 In the United States alone, more than $2 billion is spent annually for climate studies, not including the costs of satellites, ships, and laboratory construction. 2 Climatologists have obtained this immense amount of funding by creating the vision of a man-made planetary climate catastrophe."

"According to one American climatologist, the "scare-them-to-death" approach seems to be the best way to GET MONEY for climate studies. Dr. Stephen Schneider, a leading prophet of man-made climate warming, stated this bluntly:

"To capture the public imagination... we have to... make simplified dramatic statements, and little mention of any doubts one might have.... Each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective and being honest". 9

As far as your comments about Iran, WE DID send money to Iran and we sent men and equipment. We did the same for Turkey as well. In fact, through private charities, like WorldVison, Americans send BILLIONS of dollars to other third world nations. In fact we send more money to third world nations then Europe does! In addition,(I live in California) Mexicans come here get jobs and send billions of dollars back to Mexico while taking advantage of California State services. I think America does not get the credit it deserves from Europe. In reality, America is a very generous nation.

Perhaps its natural that others envy and become jealous of others success. (Sorry for all the typos)

UBFree

>To bolster up the existing clich� of anti-American,
>anti-Bush European environment freaks, I have to admit
>that I fit into that category. I think environment
>protection is a basic element of Christian ethics
>rooted already in the first chapter of the Bible. And
>I agree with Tony that many Christians are unaware of
>the importance of this issue and their responsibility
>in this issue. I also agree with Tony that protecting
>the environment has much to do with protecting the
>poor and exploiting the environment goes often along
>with exploiting the poor.
>
>Concerning �global warming� and �climate change�, here
>we have two questions: First, does it really take
>place? Second, is it caused or aggravated by man? I
>think we cannot deny that it is happening. We can see
>in our personal life. As a child, I used to go skiing
>in a low mountain range nearby. When I grew older,
>year by year there was less snow and the winter was
>warmer. The climate in Germany used to be very
>moderate, we had no extremes. But since several years
>we experienced catastrophic rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/world/newsid_21
>97000/2197973.stm">floods, rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/aug2003/heat-a1
>4.shtml">heat waves and rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.rssgmbh.de/eng/projects/disaster/storm
>/storm-2000.html">storms. During the last two
>years we even had disastrous rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.tornadoliste.de">tornados in
>Germany, I phenomenon that I knew only from the movie
>�twister� before. The rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.heute.t-online.de/ZDFheute/artikel/25/
>0,1367,MAG-0-2146041,00.html">last one was just
>two weeks ago. Some will say these phenomena have not
>increased, but we only get better and more reports.
>Maybe. But in addition to these things we cannot
>overlook in our everyday life, we have also facts that
>are hard to ignore such as the rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.solcomhouse.com/hotwater.htm">warming
>of the oceans, but they are not visible in our
>everyday life. So I believe the fact that there is a
>climate change cannot be denied. (The earth has seen
>many rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.eglofs.rv.schule-bw.de/energie/klima.h
>tm">climate changes in the past anyway, this
>wouldn�t be so unusual in itself.) The second question
>is: Are we guilty of this, is it the cause of
>industrialization? Some say it is to arrogant of man
>to believe he can change the climate. But I believe
>that things like the rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/">ozone
>holeand rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.science.gmu.edu/~zli/ghe.html">the
>greenhouse effect need to be studied and the
>industrial countries should make every effort to
>account for this things. Even if not everything is
>100% clear, in case of doubt assume the worst
>scenario. It can never be bad if we develop cars which
>use less fuel and emit fewer pollutants, and if we
>reduce our use of technology drastically. We need not
>live like Amish people, but we can learn something
>from them. Life with less cars and technology can be
>much happier.
>
>Concerning peace politics much could be done better.
>For instance, last year there was a big rel=nofollow target=_blank >href="http://www.science.gmu.edu/~zli/ghe.html">earthqu
>ake in Iran in the city of Bam. What if America
>had immediately helped there, with a huge engagement,
>and millions of dollars (for the war, billions were
>spent!). Wouldn�t it have created at least some
>sympathy for the US in the Muslim world? Germans like
>Americans because they helped us a lot after the war
>and were very friendly. If they had behaved like they
>do not in Iraq, we would think differently. I think a
>little bit of love bombing could do more good than
>massive real bombing, which has already produced
>thousands of new Bin Ladens, worse than the original.
>
>Back to the task of environmental protection: I don�t
>think Christians should ignore this. First, as Tony
>said, this will always be at the expense of the poor
>and the next generation (and we don�t know how many
>generations God will still allow). The argument that
>Jesus will come soon does not count. Even Martin
>Luther believed that the end was near, yet the
>following famous word is attributed to him: �If I knew
>that tomorrow was the end of the world, I would plant
>an apple tree today!� Second, the environment, our
>earth and everything on it is God�s creation and thus
>has a value in itself, is precious and needs to be
>protected (see how God himself protected the animals
>in Noah�s ark!).
>
>Maybe you know the International Council on Biblical
>Inerrancy who published the famous statement on
>biblical inerrancy in 1978. Besides this, they also
>published a statement on biblical hermeneutics in
>1982, and one on biblical application in 1986, which,
>unfortunately, are lesser known. The last article of
>the statement of biblical application (I cannot find
>it in the Internet) speaks a very clear language about
>Christian responsibility for the environment. Maybe
>somebody can find the article. I think Tony would like
>it.
>
>It will be difficult to discuss these issues in detail
>on this web board, since awareness for environmental
>issues is so different in Europe and US. I remember an
>American girl who was send as a �missionary� to my
>chapter and she just laughed about our habits such as
>reusing plastic bags. At that time waste separation in
>every household wasn�t introduced yet. I don�t know
>what she would have said to this.
>
>Inevitably, this will get out of hand and become a
>huge discussion, which must not be bad, but will
>distract from the UBF issues, which is the actual
>topic of this board.
>
>My suggestion is to create an associated �RSQUBF
>Offtopic Board� where we can discuss all off-topic
>questions among the same community of UBF and ex UBF
>members. The two boards could be linked together in
>the header. As soon as a discussion makes a
>digression, we could point to the Offtopic board.
>
>On that board we could discuss many questions of
>Christian ethics, Christian life, Biblical
>hermeneutics, politics, family life or anything else
>that seems important to us. Things that are related to
>UBF only in so far as they are non-issues there. Or
>did you ever read the Chicago statements on Biblical
>inerrancy, hermeneutics and application in Chicago
>UBF? Have ethical questions ever been discussed in UBF
>�conferences�? Has UBF ever cared about the poor in
>the world?
>
>One UBF missionary told me that he was sent on the
>streets, cafes and taverns for fundraising in Korea.
>They told the people that they were collecting money
>for the poor. When he found out that the money was
>used to buy a UBF chapter instead, he was not able to
>go on the street anymore because his conscience told
>him this was deceit. He spoke with his shepherd, who
>justified this proceeding by saying the money was for
>the �spiritually� poor students who need UBF chapters.
>This happened in the 1980s or even 1990s, it was usual
>practice in Korea UBF, even after the same problem had
>been brought up in the 1976 �rebellion.� As Joe
>already pointed out, money had been collected for a
>Bangladesh flood (Tony was not off topic in this
>regard), UBFins sold peanuts, sold their belongings
>and even their blood to raise some money for this
>purpose, but Lee used it for UBF instead. UBF did
>never show real interest in the poor, nor in anything
>else that was going on in the world.

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Replies:

I promise:my last post on GW -- UBFree, 13:11:59 08/04/04 Wed

Re: I promise:my last post on GW -- Tony Lang, 03:10:57 08/05/04 Thu

Re: I promise:my last post on GW -- UBFree, 13:23:19 08/05/04 Thu