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Date Posted: 14:54:24 07/16/04 Fri
Author: Crossman
Subject: Gilmore's chances...
Gilmore's got no chance. Money talks and we're not willing to pay up. I only hope that he can be "successful" enough to use the Cross as a stepping stone for getting a job with a real program.
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Re: Gilmore's chances... -- Crusader24, 16:17:01 07/18/04 Sun
If that's all you have to add, please refrain from posting. You sound like a bitter fool.
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Re: Gilmore's chances... -- Crossman, 21:05:02 07/18/04 Sun
I take it you don't disagree.
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Re: Gilmore's chances... -- hc69, 21:59:24 07/18/04 Sun
So where are you suggesting we need to put more money? Gilmore has as many full-time assistants as any other coach in the league and more than some. While it's hard to compare athletically related aid between schools directly, because it depends on how many football players qualify for need based aid (if they don't qualify, we can't give them a dime), there's no evidence that football players are going to other PL schools because they'll give them need based aid when we won't. Who has a better football stadium than we do? Have you been to Fordham? Lots of high schools have a better field than Fordham. Our football recruiting budget is lower than some schools that are beating us, but it's also higher than some schools that are beating us. There is always the issue of whether other schools are admitting athletes that we can't. I don't believe that's the case, but even if it is, that's not a money issue. We need a booster club, and apparently one is in the offing, but we need to raise funds to reduce the football deficit, not to pump more money into football. To say that the root cause of our football problems is that we're not spending enough money is absurd.
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Re: Gilmore's chances...'69 -- Rick, 09:29:14 07/19/04 Mon
You may have missed these quotes as they are within a tread aways down the page. These are excerpts from the 2002 '12 Essential Questions' interview with Dick Regan conducted by our moderator here....
" We are a small liberal arts college and he realizes that we cannot do some of the things that other schools do. "
" We simply cannot admit some of the student-athletes that other schools do. "
" Fr. McFarland and the Board of Trustees are supportive of the Athletic Program. They want a competitive program however they made it clear to me that we need to get this done with our existing resources. "
" Simply put, they expect me to do the best I can with the resources we currently have allocated to athletics. "
" The economic reality is that football is an extremely expensive sport compared to anything else we do. We spend a lot more on football than we do on men's and women's basketball combined. Somehow we need to find a
way of controlling the cost of football, particularly given the needs of our other twenty-six sports. "
" The other challenge I should mention concerns football. Lehigh and Colgate are spending dramatically more on financial aid than we are in this sport. Right now, we are spending as much as the College's budget can handle. We are going to need to find some way of bridging the gap if those schools keep up with their current level of spending. "
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Gilmore's chances...i like them -- purplehaze, 22:24:44 07/18/04 Sun
coaching in football can make a huge difference. remember when carter replaced wheelright? he was simply a great coach and got it done, albeit with scholies, where no one else succeeded with them before him, (in the late 60's and 70's).
as much as he was a likeable guy, coach allen did not have the makeup of a head coach. putting aside his illness, his assistants, and his recruiting ability were clearly below the standards in the pl.
i like gilmore and i think he has enough institutional support to succeed. and his staff is head and shoulders better than anything up there in the last five years.
just remember football is not basketball. 2 or 3 studs does not make an immediate difference, we are all going to have to be patient.
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Re: Gilmore's chances...i like them - haze -- Rick, 10:02:54 07/19/04 Mon
" coaching in football can make a huge difference. remember when carter replaced wheelright? he was simply a great coach and got it done, albeit with scholies, where no one else succeeded with them before him, (in the late 60's and 70's). "
Some unusual/extenuating factors pre-Carter, don't you think ?
The hep outbreak canceling the 1969 season directly resulting in an 0-11-1 season in 1970. A crippled program for several years under Ed Doherty followed. Wheelright was a great recruiter but a poor sideline coach.
Let us not overlook the facts on Rick Carter....
HC would not have had a chance to sign him had it not met a long and expensive list of his demands -
1) doubled the salary of the head coach position,
2) agreed to add 2 asst. positions to staff,
3) agreed to increase salaries for all asst. positions,
4) agreed to build a Fitton Field locker room,
5) agreed to purchase new uniforms and cleats for the entire squad,
6) agreed to install an underground sprinkler system on Fitton Field,
7) agreed to completely overhaul/renovate Fitton Field,
8) agreed to remodel the football offices in the Fieldhouse
I've yet to hear of any list of demands that HC met in order to land Tom Gilmore.
Also, let us also not forget that Rick Carter was a young but experienced head coach who was the reigning Div.III 'NATIONAL COACH OF THE YEAR' when he was hired.
This is Tom Gilmore's initial season as a Head Coach anywhere.
It's premature to compare or mention Rick Carter and Tom Gilmore in the same breath.
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Re: UNIFORMS AND CLEATS?!?!?! -- Go...'gate, 13:06:43 07/19/04 Mon
I remember the change in the HC uniforms's - you had different variations of the same uniform (with "Holy Cross" on the front of the jersey) for many years until 1981. But CLEATS???? I don't know of a D-I program in the East at that time still asked the players to supply their own shoes.
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It takes the right person -- colgate13, 08:51:33 07/19/04 Mon
Anyone remember the state of Colgate football in 1995? 0-11. Barely on life support.
New coach, new attitude and bam - 6-5 next year and the rest is history. No change to scholarships, no dropping of admission standards, etc.
Don't be too downtrodden HC fans. It can happen. If Gilmore is the right person for the program, you can win.
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Doesn't the admissions dept.play a part? -- prior HC coaches complained of lower stds @gate, 09:20:24 07/19/04 Mon
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Re: Our alleged "lower standards"... -- Go...'gate, 13:09:09 07/19/04 Mon
Didn't help us much when you guys were giving full scholarships....
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Re: Biddle vs. Gilmore -- Rick, 12:11:33 07/20/04 Tue
colgate13 -
You're not really trying to compare Dick Biddle's resume' pre-1995 to Tom Gilmore's, are you ? Gilmore doesn't possess anyway near the credentials in 2004 that Biddle had in 1995.
That would be exceedingly unfair to both men.
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Re: Gilmore's chances... -- HCGrad, 11:45:45 07/19/04 Mon
I think Gilmore will get this program going. Aside from Coach Allen's illness, he was not doing the job before that time. Gilmore has shaken up the program and instilled new energy in it. The money helps, but the man at the helm does make all the difference. He came from a program that knows how to win. The wins may not come this year but once HC get going, it is not a hard school to lure good athletes too. It is a better school than Lehigh and Lafayette and has known winning in the past. HC has lost its pride. The football team has become the purple team that shows up and gets it but whipped. Gilmore will not allow that mentality to continue.
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A little full of yourself are you? -- colgate13, 13:44:23 07/19/04 Mon
"once HC get going, it is not a hard school to lure good athletes too. It is a better school than Lehigh and Lafayette "
C'mon - you don't really believe there is much measurable difference between any of the PL schools, do you? If you must try to quantify which school is better, do you think being ranked one spot ahead of Lafayette (and tied with Bucknell) really matters? Not to mention you can't really compare Lehigh since they are in a different peer group?
We're all good schools and the reason our student athletes choose one over the other is for a variety of reasons. Petty "we're a better school than X" arguements go nowhere fast.
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Re: A little full of yourself are you? -- kesiwick, 14:08:06 07/19/04 Mon
agree with Colgate 13 -- also, we shouldn't blame Colgate for our lack of vision and ineptness -- we just pissed away the ECAC -- a school located in a cold weather climate in a region known for first-rate hockey decides to blow off the ECAC so we can build a 2 million dollar soccer facility -- fools
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Re: A little full of yourself are you? -- hc69, 17:31:46 07/19/04 Mon
Yep, I also find it ironic that our 'gate brethren who show up occasionally on this board seem to have more faith in us than we have in ourselves . . . of course, Irish-American Catholicism never was able to rid itself totally of the self-flagellation of Jansenism . . .
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Re: A little full of yourself are you? -- purp, 20:15:04 07/19/04 Mon
don't suggest for a second that kesiwick is Irish American Catholic although others here might suffer from that syndrome. Actually, he's probably a BC flunkout.
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Re: A little full of yourself are you? -- kesiwick, 21:25:06 07/19/04 Mon
it's called reality -- check it out once in a while -- hmmmmm, let me guess -- you were probably one of those who tried to explain away the D-3 loss to Williams or QU trumping the Cross -- the world needs cheerleaders but I prefer to keep my head out of the sand
ps-- Unlike some, I don't blame our problems on Colgate and the "lowering admissions" excuse
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Re: A little full of yourself are you? -- purp, 21:43:43 07/19/04 Mon
"our problems"??? - you couldn't be one of us. I still think you must be a BC flunkout.
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Re: A little full of yourself are you? -- kesiwick, 09:18:05 07/20/04 Tue
you have deeply wounded me -- for there is no greater insult than to be maligned with the BC tag -- but I find that a good rule of thumb to distinguish a Holy Cross grad from a BC associated person is by simply counting up the number of spelling mistakes in the message -- 0-1 indicates a HC grad -- 1-7 indicates a high school senior -- 7 and over is obviously from BC --
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Re: Go Saders -- HCBaller, 14:16:18 07/20/04 Tue
I guarantee HC upsets Colgate this year. Their overall record will be 3-7 with a big wins against the 'gate, Harvard and Lafayette.
BC will start on a ten year losing streak as they head toward ACC play.
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We talkin' football? -- sader1970, 14:50:10 07/20/04 Tue
Not sure what sport you are referring to but since you say 3-7, I'm guessing football. Are you saying we'll beat those 3 teams but lose to Marist and Duquense and Georgetown?
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Re: I predict HC has a winning record in '04 -- Go...'gate, 16:19:37 07/20/04 Tue
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Re: I predict HC has a winning record in '04 -- sader1970, 06:22:41 07/21/04 Wed
Rick, I don't have the '05 schedule immediately available but I do think you are right with Delaware added and not sure about UNH. Regardless, I believe that there is not a significant difference in the playing abilities of the HC football players and their 1-AA opposition. I've been of the belief, and still am, that the big difference was the lack of coaching. After all, the Cross with a 1-11 record last year took a 1-AA finals team (Colgate) to the wire and lost by a single touchdown and I believe can and should have won that game (as well as many of the games they lost).
We are NOT suddenly putting BC back on the schedule or Syracuse or Penn State. Maybe we do lose to Delaware but IMO, we'll improve under Coach Gilmore from year to year and beat teams in the 2nd year that we might lose to in the first year that he coaches.
Hey, it's all speculation at this point but having watched HC lose games because they faded in the 4th quarter or because of blown big plays, I'm expecting a big change in attitude on the team in the coming years from one of expecting the other shoe drop and wondering "how are we going to lose this one?" to one of confidence and more aggressive play. Check the archives, I've been saying for some time that there was a lack of accountability on the part of last year's coaching staff that seemed to imply in post game interviews that the Cross players weren't mentally up to the task of the great schemes and game plans which I thought was despicable. The old saw is that good coaching might not win many games but bad coaching can lose you a lot of games. IMO, that's what's happened the last 5 years that I've been a season ticket holder.
This coming season will be a barometer for things to come. I don't expect them to win every game but if they can learn to win and regain confidence in the coaching staff and, more importantly, in themselves, I think a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised.
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Go....'gate -- sader1970, 18:19:36 07/20/04 Tue
We agree. I'm expecting just above .500 season this year and maybe 7-8 wins the following year.
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To: 1970 -- Rick, 20:13:37 07/20/04 Tue
Refresh my memory please....do Delaware and New Hampshire replace Duquesne and Marist in 2005 ?
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Re: To: 1970 -- Purple fanz, 23:12:48 07/20/04 Tue
good point Rick, Gilmore could face a much tougher slate in '05.
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Re: To: 1970 / fanz -- Rick, 10:11:49 07/21/04 Wed
Again, I'm looking for some confirmation....can't recall if UNH comes aboard in '05 or '06.
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Re: To: 1970 / fanz -- hc69, 10:34:50 07/21/04 Wed
'05, open up there I believe.
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