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Date Posted: 13:16:11 07/16/04 Fri
Author: sader1970
Subject: Numbers
Though this won't answer any questions, I thought I'd share some numbers from the HC website.
"Alumni of Record": 32,993 (as of 2002-2003)
Alumni Giving: 13,505 (40.93% by my calculation - a lot less than 50%)
Endowment: $358 million (as of 12/22/03)
Operating Budget: $106.6 million
Replacement Value of plant: $432 million
Average SAT score (a favorite subject on this board): 1220 - 1320
Enrollment (fall '03): 2,748
54% female
13% minority and/or foreign
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Re: Numbers -- Rick, 13:24:24 07/16/04 Fri
I'd LOVE to see one of our Colgate visitors here do a DIRECT line by line comparison with their data to ours !!!!!
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There is no excuse for fat chicks at Holy Cross -- Dissapointed un Mass, 22:47:42 07/17/04 Sat
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Re: We're on your side, Rick. -- Go...'gate, 14:31:53 07/16/04 Fri
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Re: Numbers -- Rick, 14:52:18 07/16/04 Fri
I know that....
I'd like nothing more than to embarrass our Trustees, McFarland and Regan with comparison data that shows how it can be done at a school of similar size and resouces.
Can do ?
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Re: Numbers -- HC93, 14:59:40 07/16/04 Fri
Just a quick solicitaion of opinions -- what jumps out most to me is the 40% giving rate this year for the fund. HC has always prided itself on being one of the tops in the nation in terms of giving rate (which was consistently over 50%). What do posters here attribute the drop off to? Alumni anger over poor athletic decisions (e.g., Patriot League, ECAC)? Changes in the school's religious views (or at least, taking actions inconsistent with traditional views)? General antipathy? I'm just curious.
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Re: Numbers -- sader1970, 15:23:40 07/16/04 Fri
Though I'm the one that put the numbers up, I'd caution against taking them out of context without explanation. That WAS a direct quote about "alumni of record" (as opposed to those who aren't on the record?). How alumni percentage participation giving is calculated, I don't know but I don't think there was an almost 10 basis point drop off in a year or two. I suspect it's calculated some other way. For example, maybe "Purple Knights" (alums out 50+ years) don't count. Perhaps the "Lift High the Cross" direction of contributions has something to do with it?
I am sure that a number of alums older than me have been upset about the perceived loosening of moral standards on campus and may well have held back contributions. And, no doubt, decisions made about athletics have upset some alums. Heck, going co-ed 30 years ago probably upset some alums. But, you can't keep everyone happy all the time. Getting into and winning a game or two in the NCAA basketball playoffs would go a long way to increasing contributions.
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HC/'Gate line by line -- colgate13, 15:39:20 07/16/04 Fri
Alumni of Record
Holy Cross 32,993 (as of 2002-2003)
Colgate 28,000 (listed currently on website)
Alumni Giving
Holy Cross 13,505 (40.93% by my calculation - a lot less than 50%)
Colgate 14,200 for 02-03(which is 51% but we're advertising it as a 55% giving rate on the same page, so both schools are doing something creative)
Endowment
Holy Cross $358 million (as of 12/22/03)
Colgate $420 million (as of 5/21/2003)
Operating Budget
Holy Cross $106.6 million
Colgate $111 million for 02-03
Replacement Value of plant
Holy Cross $432 million
Colgate not sure if this is apples to apples. We have $271 million in land, building and equipment on the ledger in 02-03.
Average SAT score
Holy Cross: 1220 - 1320
Colgate: 1310 - 1470 (Class of 2008)
Enrollment (fall '03)
Holy Cross: 2,748
54% female
13% minority and/or foreign
Colgate: 2,784
51.7% female
17% minority and/or foreign
BTW, Colgate has 25 Division I athletic teams...
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Re: HC/'Gate Size Comparison??? -- KY Crusader '75, 16:04:08 07/16/04 Fri
Our HC Fund data lists HC as having 27,574 "members" thru the class of 2003. That conflicts with the 33,000 "Alumni of Record" noted above. If HC does, indeed, have 33M alums, one might ask why we would have so many more than Colgate with Colgate being a slightly larger school. Perhaps Colgate has grown in size substantially in recent years. It's either that or Crusaders live longer as, being educated in the Jesuit tradition as "men and women for others", we have so much more to give to society and are granted more years to do so.------ Just thought I'd inject a little frivolity into this miasma of self-loathing that we find ourselves in due to the ECAC decision.......
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Re: HC/'Gate line by line -- PatriotFan, 16:30:12 07/16/04 Fri
This comparison makes the discussion easy. Athletics are a priotity at Colgate. At Holy Cross they are less so. Alums give huge sums to athletics at Colgate through boosters organizations. Holy Cross alums need to get with the program and get organized....or resign themselves to sitting around griping on this forum instead of going to Worcester and seeing Crusader victories. And one might even deduce from the numbers above that it should be easier to get athletes into Holy Cross given slightly lower SAT profile. That might be offset however by a difficult sales pitch involving Worcester and tired athletic facilities. The sports venues at Colgate are pretty nice.
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Re: HC/'Gate line by line -- Purple fanz, 21:42:05 07/17/04 Sat
Gate
IMO it is difficult to compare unless you can almost audit the records and be sure you have apples - apples comparison. Schools sometimes measure things differently
the most recent US News & World Report Sept 2003
shows some different stats (probably based on 2002 in some cases)
Alumni giving rate
Colgate 45%
HC 52%
SAT's 25 - 75 percentile (not too different)
Colgate 1240 - 1410
HC 1160 - 1320
a point to consider: many at HC claim that HC admissions weighs SAT's less than most schools, however....
% of class in top 10% of HS class
Colgate - 68%
HC - 59%
one more however,though - there is a footnote next to Colgates stats though that say the date is based on less then 51% of the incoming freshmen. So, could it be less representative of the actual class than HC's numbers?
One thing is clear though - Colgate seems to have more money. Colgates financial resources rank is 35 and HC is 49. For faculty resources, Colgate is 27 and HC is 100.
Another thing appears to be true, Catholic colleges in general are well known to have lesser endowments and less money in general. I guess they got into the fundraising game later than the others.
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Re: self-loathing comment by KY Crusader '75 -- HChockeyalum, 15:53:56 07/17/04 Sat
hey, it shouldn't be self-loathing, but the loathing of certain other people that are ruining alma mater....so let's focus our energies, positive and negative, on firing those who don't represent our interests and donating the sufficient monies to expand Hart rink and boost hockey AND basketball...yes, even I recognize that boosting BB will help bring in the money to support hockey, etc.
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Re: Hart -- Rick, 21:00:04 07/17/04 Sat
"....and donating the sufficient monies to expand Hart rink "
I'm no construction engineer and generally speaking, nothing is inpossible with enough money but some layman thoughts on this -
Hart rink is just that - a rink as opposed to a true arena. It was built as a basic, non-descript box with modest seating on one side of the ice. AIR, those seats are built atop permanent concrete risers. One end ( facing the outdoor track ) is a plain wall with a large doorway where the Zamboni enters/exits and beyond a storage garage with the cooling plant appliances. The other end ( facing Hogan ) is also a plain wall with the access road/parking spaces/parking lot just outside. The other side, across from the benches/seating, is a wall right up against the rink sideboards with walking space to access some modest offices, store rooms and AIR the small locker rooms. Above this area is the fairly expansive President's box/Alumini hospitality suite ( whatever it's called/used for nowadays ) which is also above the Hart lobby/concourse area between the rink and the hoops arena. Windows on either side of this '2nd floor' suite afford private viewing of either hoops or hockey games. In addition, the basketball offices used to be off the lobby and behind this wall from the rink ( still there ? ). I also remember a crew tank room being up from the basketball offices off the lobby area and behind that rink side wall as well ( still there ? ).
Thus, it would appear to me that seat expansion on the side rink would be a large and expensive undertaking.
Expansion of the Zamboni end would call for relocating it's storage area and perhaps the cooling plant.
Expansion of the Hogan end appears the most plausible.
Of course, expansion of any of these 3 sides would entail relocation of or working around the main wall beams that support the roof over the rink. I have no idea of the expense or the feasibility of attempting such an expansion of the rink.
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Re: Management of Endowment -- HChockeyalum, 14:50:49 07/18/04 Sun
Who or what firms manages HC's endowment? Is it bid out? Is it given in some sweetheart deal to some alum? How does their performance compare to the performance of the money managers of the top performing endowments in the country?
At least in this category there is no excuse for McFarland to say apples and oranges. Right?
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