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Date Posted: 07:46:50 07/18/00 Tue
Author: Peter
Subject: Re: Release, Conversation
In reply to: Dave Ferguson 's message, "Release, Golf Magazine - Peter please read" on 06:20:48 07/18/00 Tue

> Peter,
> From your posts you seem to have worked hard on the
> release.

I have though my original intent was only to hold the angle longer.

> I'm putting my swing together piece by piece. Thanks
> to Remington I've settled on the grip. Related to this
> is the "no knuckles showing" left hand grip that you
> advocate.

I would not say that I advocate it, but rather that I found it necessary and not too different from rictures of Moe.

> Point 1:
> This month's Golf Magazine has an article on the
> release. It states that "As the arms pass in front of
> the body on the downswing, the right arm naturally
> rotates over the left".

I don't care for the way they express this, though I agree. The language used seems 'relaxed'. What I now feel as release is hardly relaxed though it is natural.

> As to squaring the club face I don't get it. For SA
> players the left arm (top rail) is above the right arm
> at setup and the club face is square. This is the same
> position at impact ie no arm over arm rotation.
> Certainly I have to do this or the ball will hook like
> crazy.

I think there are two points here but first we have to have a common view of what the club face is doing.

With NG and IMA the club face should go from roughly toe up pre-impact to toe up post-impact. This represents a club face rotation of about 180 degrees on the axis of the shaft. This also represents a face position that goes from parrallel to the target line, to perpendicualar to it, to parallel. Given this there is only a limited time when the club face is perpendicular to the line and will send the ball where you want.

If the club does not move in your hands, then your hands and arms have to rotate to accomodate this. How they rotate with IMA/NG is different than how they rotate with CG but they do rotate.

Notice that I say "they rotate" not "you rotate them".

> With CG the wrist unhinging happens at the same time
> as the right arm rotating over the left. I'm thinking
> that becaus they happen at the same time that this
> source of the confusion about rotation providing
> power. Instead the wrist unhinging is probably more
> important. The important part is the club head lags
> prior to impact and passes the hands after impact.

Sad to say that I think the confusion is just due to bad communication. I've heard many top 100 golf teachers talk about rotating the arms. I've never heard one say that if you maintain this angle the club will snap around so hard you couldn't stop it if you tried and as a result your arms will rotate (this is what I experience).

> Suppose that we don't rotate the entire arm. With the
> wrist unhinging we should still have plenty of club
> head speed. The only concern might be if we inhibit
> this wrist motion by blocking any arm rotation. This
> would be result either, in the back of the left hand
> facing the sky well after impact, thereby losing the
> snap at the bottom of the swing or a backhand slap of
> the ball with the left wrist collapsing and no
> extension.

When I talk about the frame by frame analysis of the amateurs in the NG infomercial these are things I see. Also look at the Kalassey infomercial. They show a scratch golfer and amateur tournament winner with minimal wrist cock at the top who sustains nearly no angle on the downswing. This does go to show that while this stuff is advantageous, it is not mandatory for good scores.

> This is where Doug Sanders comes in. It appeared that
> his follow through looked just like this with both
> arms extended to the target!

Except for his little 'demo' where he held the back of his hand to the sky in follow through! His swing actually reminded me of a bit of a cross betweeh HSS (keep the face square) and Dalton Mcrary (early release). But unlike Moe he had a short backswing even in his prime nearly winning the British Open.

> Related to this is that the left arm does not stay
> tucked into the left side after impact. I am allowing
> it to fold but only after both arms are extended to
> the target. The advantage here is that my shoulders
> aren't pulled around as the right arm runs out of room
> as they would be if I kept the left arm tucked. This
> helps to keep me from spinning.

I actually think keeping the left arm tucked is important, though I am not good at doing it. In another post I put forward the idea that IMA/NG anatomically limits the motions in follow through. I think the left arm folding and staying relatively close to the side is part of that. This was a point demonstrated to me by Scott at IMA school, though like many things during that intense 3 days I am only now coming to understand (I think).

Scott put me in the follow through position (club horizontal, elbow down by side, left wrist bent) and pressed laterally against the club to my left(which wanted to bend my wrist more but my wrist wouldn't go more) to demonstrate that the club was "trapped down the line" and that I could swing as hard as I wanted this way and there would never "be any left" (meaning hook) because the club was trapped.

In this position the right wrist is apx. level with the left and if you continued this follow through with the club going up the wrist would nver really cross over as in a CG swing (although there was rotation of each arm).

I suspect if I was better at maintaining this I would not have to keep my left hand as weak as I do.

Since the arm should not straighten until after impact, the pull that turns you as you 'run out of' right arm should not affect ball flight. Of course until I made these recent swing changes my right arm was straight before impact!

I don't consider myself that unique so I want to again alert people to the effort and focus I need to apply to maintain the angle. Given that and what I've seen of others on the course and at the driving range, my guess is that less than 10% of golfers maintain the angle to the point that is my goal now in every swing.

Thanks for getting my thoughts this way - 'trapping the club down the line' will be my next area of video focus.

And thanks to everyone for these discussions. Pulling all of this together is helping me greatly to better understand IMA and prioritize my practice.


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