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Date Posted: 22:32:55 06/15/00 Thu
Author: Dez
Subject: Re: Making it more difficult than necessary
In reply to: Remington 's message, "Re: Making it more difficult than necessary" on 12:16:05 06/15/00 Thu

This is the process that I had asked the NGCIs on the NG forum to describe. Just tell me step by step how to set-up. I believed that once set up the act of getting the hands to shoulder height with a straighter, more rigid left wrist would cause the rest of your body to follow. The same with the motion of the arms in the downswing, the body must follow. The only thing missing in your description is posture and addressing the ball. I have read here, that Moe starts the take-away from both; next to the ball and well bacl from the ball. I still can't get comfortable with the club a foot behind the ball.

As for posture...The most "striking" thing I saw in my one viewing of the LTOBG video was when Todd (I think) held the club horizontally in front of himself then, keeping his upper body and the club rigid, bent at the waist until the club touched the ground, then set his feet. No-one ever suggested that and the video only shows it once, it is not verbalize either. For a "beginner" that process is essential.

I think your right, about NG not having the knack of teaching. Neither the book nor the video gave you what you need as a "beginner". When you change your swing and "feel" of a swing like one does when converting to Single-Axis, you are a Beginner all over again.

Thanks for comin' out...
Dez

> Interesting post. It would be interesting to see how
> much could be agreed upon, in this respect.
>
> I think it is important for serious students, of the
> swing, to understand what Moe did, and what Jack K.
> "invented", under the publicity of Moe.
>
> Moe built the swing intuitively. However, because of
> his nature, I believe he invented a very mechanical,
> repeatable swing because I think his nature
> (temperament) demanded it. Further, I think his
> nature liked "odd", and there is some oddness in the
> swing, but oddness that works. Lastly,a lot of pros
> hit as many golf balls as Moe so I don't think Moe is
> more accurate than other golf professionls. I think
> the swing he invented allowed him to be more accurate
> than other golf professionals.
>
> Here is my take on Moe's swing. As for this
> discussion, I will not deal with the "reach", or, the
> "wide stance".
>
> He takes a wide stance. He grips the club so that his
> wrist is very high with the left hand, first, and it
> is IN LINE WITH THE LEFT ARM (essential fact). If you
> have problems, with the grip of the left hand, just
> keep regripping it until the left wrist stays extended
> on the backswing (simple enough). The clubhead is
> BEHIND the ball, and in direct line with that left
> arm. This is not one of the "odd" things that he
> does, but is essential to a successful execution of
> the swing, Moe style, with great accuracy and
> repeatibility.
>
> Now, he puts the right hand on, with an overlapping
> grip, and notice that when you do this the right
> shoulder goes down, and the grip is high up in the
> fingers (not the palm), and kind of under the club.
> You can only get the right hand on there one way
> because the left hand is holding the club so high, and
> the club is angled to the right. These two moves are
> essential to understand because they set you up for
> the third move. Remember that mastery of the previous
> move ensures the completion of the move to follow.
>
> If you will notice how things look, on the set-up
> position, you will notice that the backswing only
> moves that left hand about a quarter inch to the
> right, and, then, THE BACK OF THE LEFT HAND IS FLAT TO
> THE FRONT, and flat to the left arm. This move
> ensures more success than anything else, i.e., getting
> that back hand flat, and, if you gripped right, with
> the left hand, the left wrist will stay extended on
> the backswing.
>
> Chaz likes to stick the knife in, AND, then, TURN IT,
> on the NG forum, with the information that, in fact,
> almost immediately, the right elbow pulls back, which
> allows the club to go INSIDE AND UP. The key thing to
> understand here, and I think it is the most
> misunderstood thing about the swing, is that because
> of the way that the right hand is at address, when
> that right elbow goes back, the right palm is pretty
> much OPEN to the front, which causes the club to go UP
> and inside, and it prepares the right hand for the
> open tray position at the top.
>
> OK. Students must understand that once you get this
> far, you have nailed it. Forget about the push/pull
> because you can only get out of that position one way
> so just focus on swinging at the ball, with the head
> over the right knee.
>
> So I say do it like Moe. First, grip the left hand.
> Then, put on the right hand, which will be under the
> shaft, and will drop the right shoulder. When you
> pull the right elbow back, it will provide a path for
> the club to go inside and up, but it will go inside
> and up with the right palm open and the back of the
> left hand flat. Then, just swing because there is
> only one way you can get out of this position, and
> keep your head over the right knee.
>
> Jack K. came in and said to hold the right hand in the
> palm,and that is fine, also. Moe was single axis
> (club was not below the right arm) with the overlap
> grip, and the ten finger grip allowed the club to go
> into the palm, and be single axis.
>
> I personally don't feel there is a lot of flexibility
> in this swing because it is so mechanical. However, a
> good discussion of the differences, within the single
> axis ranks,is important to understand. The NGCIs, and
> instructors, from the other methods, seem to avoid
> these types of discussions, even when prodded by the
> Chaz.
>
> I don't want to dismiss the other systems because I
> think they are all sound, but I think a person has to
> view them from an understanding of what Moe was doing.
>
> NG does work like magic, if you understand the swing,
> and THERE IS NO LOSS OF POWER. Most students that I
> see with NG try to compromise the swing, by doing it a
> little their way, and a little the NG way. This swing
> does take a mechanical commitment. You will pretty
> much look like Moe. This is a swing you copy; not
> adapt.
>
> I think NG is making a mistake by allowing a lot of
> variation in the swing. I think Jack K. was right in
> insisting on a fairly disciplined approach to the
> mastery of this swing.
>
> Any comments?

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