Serp, you had to know I'd respond -- Final End

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Date Posted: 19:27:43 05/13/02 Mon
Author: Neuminas
Subject: Serp, you had to know I'd respond
In reply to: The Serpent 's message, "Re: Well, my point was more political than spiritual." on 13:21:04 05/03/02 Fri

You wrote:
The church has a responsibility, in that, it should teach, and preach to those who believe, and stay out of politics, and other religions, and vise versa.

I understand where you're coming from, but the thing is, religion can't and shouldn't be left in a church. Does this mean that someone's faith should be pushed on others? Of course not. It does mean that the religious has highly political ramifications, and the political has highly religious ramifications. To say that they should stay out of eachother's business is like asking someone to do science without math.

You:
Is fundamental beliefs in God the reason why the Middle East is in such an uproar?
No. Historically, Jewish folks and Muslims folks got along just fine. Religion is a smoke screen for a war that resulted from a bit of territoriality and a lot of Europe/America's stupidity. Centuries of Anti-semitism, culminating in The Holocaust, gave Jewish folks good reason to believe they needed to protect themselves, that the world wouldn't be a partner in this. England offered up a colony-- and a colony is by definition not property rightfully owned by the Imperial power-- to the Jews. The people who had basically had possession of this land for the preceeding couple centuries understandably took issue with this.
Furthermore, the founders of Isreal were ironically basically Atheist/Jews. There has since been a right-wing take over.

You:Are crooked ideas, and outlandish interpretations, in anything that has to do with religion, the reason why we had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Klu Klux Klan, the idea of "White Supremacy" (when most prophets where anything but white)?
You are right. It's all about crooked ideas and outlandish interpretations, not about the faiths themselves.

Again, you:The shallow view points that come along with firm and strict religious beliefs cause nothing but violence and fear.
And here you tread into a real pet peeve. I am a liberal Christian. I am just as firm in this faith as the idiots who thump their bibles on television. I have a firm conviction.
Their is a real irony; agnostic/atheists/non-Christian have bought a lie from the religious right. This lie is that the true Christians are the born-agains. The "liberal" path has at least as much historical precedent as the conservative; it has been covered up and distorted by the right wing.

You:Religion, of any kind, is a dictatorship. It will, and has, controlled the way people think and act. Most of the time it has been for the worst.
Religion is a guide. It has been abused, raped, if you will, to give the appearance of covering for real evil.
Religion has been given credit for forming the basis of western science (that's a big issue, but I'm up for it if you are) and has been a tool of liberation, both spiritually and physically.

And finnally:
If this is what Jesus Christ wants, then consider me a heretic.

It's not what Jesus Christ wants. And many consider me a heretic.

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