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Subject: Daniel 4 vss 10-17 Post #20


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 20:55:54 05/31/09 Sun

Daniel 4:10-17 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great. 11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: 12 The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it. 13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; 14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches: 15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth: 16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him. 17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

As we read further of Nebuchadnezzar's dream we begin to see why he would be disturbed at the dream.. In his first dream the head of the statue was his self. Our attention is drawn to a great tree. This tree was huge in height and breadth. It's top touched heaven and it's breadth reached to all the earth. It's evidently fed man, beast and fowl although man is not mention per se but is implied by the term "all flesh".

Nebuchadnezzar was probably struck by this awe inspiring sight up to this point. He possibly even thought, "that tree is like my own majesty and glory". It is not the only time a tree has been used allegorically to represent a man or men in the Bible. In Ezekiel we find the ASSYRIAN (vs. 3). who could only be Satan in it's references to Eden in the chapter. We have in Judges 9 some contenders for being king over Israel represented as various trees with the bramble or thorn representing Abimelech who usurped God's chosen judges to reign over Israel. He reigned 3 yrs. over Israel and is called the "bramble king". By reading the characteristics of the trees we can see something in the life or influence of the one likened to the tree. Nebuchadnezzar in truth was the one who controlled all in the nation as to food supply, shelter and comfort of the subjects. It was system by which all depended on the king.

The next thing that Nebuchadnezzar sees brings great apprehension to him as he sees a heavenly being descend from heaven and command that the tree be cut down and then it's branches cut up. Not satisfied with this destruction the angel commands to scatter it's leaves and fruit leaving nothing for the fowls of the air nor the beasts of the field. If there was one bright spot in the dream it was that the tree was to be cut to the stump leaving it's roots intact. It is common knowledge that most trees will sprout again if the roots are not damaged. This probably was not lost on Nebuchadnezzar. To reinforce the knowledge the tree was to sprout again was the period of time associated with the vision; "till seven times". Seven is the number of completion in the Bible and we may assume the time is seven years. This will match other places in the Bible where a time is one year (Dan. 7:25, 12:7, Rev. 12:14). As seven years is the total time allowed for the tribulation period we can assume this vision of Nebuchadnezzar's will have future application during the tribulation. Nebuchadnezzar in some ways is a type of the coming anti-Christ.

It is interesting that the bands placed around the stump to "preserve" it are brass and iron. Iron in particular is associated with the spirit world. In particular the devil's bunch. If you remember back in chapter two we looked at the statement "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." (2:43) Tubalcain, of the line of Cain, was an artificer of brass and iron. He was the first metal worker and the word artificer carries with it the meaning of a skilled craftsman. Brass and iron, many times, has a negative connotation. In Leviticus 26:19 God warned Israel of the penalty of continued sin: "And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:" The brass and iron therefore may represent the preservation as being from the evil spirit world, at least in it' prophetic sense relating to the end times and tribulation period.

The statement Nebuchadnezzar heard concerning the person the tree represented must have brought much consternation to him for the angel said "let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth: Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him. " Nebuchadnezzar must have suspected greatly the dream was aimed at himself and not another. Again we have reference that can be applied to the end times. The "beast" of Revelation is a man with a beasts heart. He and his kingdom are represented by beasts. (Rev. 13:1-3, Dan. 8:1-13, Dan. 7:4-9)

Finally Nebuchadnezzar is informed in his dream where the dream and it's meaning originated from. " This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men." If it came from heaven and not from something Nebuchadnezzar ate and didn't sit well on his stomach then he knew that the dream did not bode well for him. He had already seen much evidence that God was working in his kingdom and specifically through the Hebrews he had brought into captivity so it was with great apprehension that he was calling for help in understanding the dream. That God rules in the kingdom of men and sets in authority the basest of men should give us cause to reflect on our present situation in the world. We wonder how God can tolerate some of the leaders in the world but from the text we may assume that they are ruling not only by permission of God but by appointment. This is a scary thought because in our limited understanding we see despicable people and think God could not have a part in this. We need to realize that God is sovereign and as such places people in authority over nations according to the spiritual condition of that nation. If it is evil it will get an evil ruler. If it is God fearing and for the most part righteous in it's actions God will give Davids, Joshuas and Hezekiahs. It's religious men will be as the prophets and God will bless abundantly. For an excellent perspective on this just read Leviticus 26. It lays out the promises for those who obey and for those who don't.

Basically it boils down to us as a nation receiving what we deserve. With everything falling apart as it is it would behoove us to examine ourselves and see from where we have fallen and return to the "old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein." (Jer. 6:16)

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Replies:
[> Subject: Hillbilly


Author:
BOB
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Date Posted: 22:43:14 05/31/09 Sun

"...to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."
I do pray for our leaders(??) and in particular the trailer trash at the top of the heap. It has been pretty easy so far but this winter is going to be a very interesting time period because the unemployed and evicted will be getting more and more numerous. I don't imagine hussein will be bothered by the freezing deaths of a few thousand people but, hopefully, someone will care enough to tell the truth about the emperors new clothes... hussein doesn't have any...
[> [> Subject: President Zero


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 20:02:57 06/01/09 Mon

is not going to be worried over a "few" deaths caused by inability to pay heating bills. After all when he gets through with the auto industry and the "green" cars are coming off the line the death toll is expected to rise dramatically from these newer matchboxes on wheels that offer no protection during a collision.

Just fewer to collect social security benefits.
[> Subject: HB/Bob


Author:
Connie
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Date Posted: 10:05:30 06/02/09 Tue

We need to realize that God is sovereign and as such places people in authority over nations according to the spiritual condition of that nation. If it is evil it will get an evil ruler. I think those of us who are believers and watched this country go down the toilet, especially since the sixties sexual revolution, and did nothing to stop it now know that God means what He says and we have people in authority now because of the current spiritual condition of this country which is being destroyed before our eyes. Time to "shout from the housetops" and from all the pulpits across the land 2 Chronicles 7:14. "If my people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land." Sad to say I believe it's too late.
[> [> Subject: Connie


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 20:43:20 06/03/09 Wed

Yes we all need to shout from the housetops the truth.

This week saw the end of the life of Tiller the late term abortion doctor. Ironically he was killed in his church. He will be eulogized as a great man by a very many people.

The man was a murderer and probably killed more innocent lives than Saddam Hussein ever thought about killing. A great many people look at the fetus as being nothing more than a lump of flesh or a tumor in the shape of a little person.

God looks at life in the womb a little differently. He spoke of Jeremiah in this way:

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
(Jeremiah 1:5)

God knew him before He formed him (take note: God formed him/he didn't just take form on his own) and sanctified him in the womb. God recognized him as a viable person before he was made to take the form of a baby. Life begins at conception!

We have those among us who claim that "waterboarding" is cruel and inhuman torture yet thing nothing of the abortion doctors tearing defenseless babies from their mother's wombs. They think nothing of driving a pair of scissors into their little brains yet won't stand for the use of discomfort on a man that masterminded the death's of over 3,000 innocent people and would take more lives if given the chance.

Yes we need to shout it from the house tops, the streets, the workplace and the hightways and bi-ways.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
[> [> [> Subject: And there will soon be the day when


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 10:28:59 06/04/09 Thu

You, Connie, and I will be arrested for speaking that truth and tried for the crime of hate speech. It is coming a lot sooner than any suspect.
[> Subject: Hillbilly


Author:
Connie
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Date Posted: 08:47:11 06/04/09 Thu

Have to tell you I'm appalled at how far and how fast has the idea that a fetus (I hate that word) is just a lump of useless flesh and not the early formation of a baby. Of course the feminists are the ones that started using the word "fetus" for pregnancy because it dehumanizes the baby and salves their consciences that they are not guilty of murder.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! When I read that verse I immediately thought of Obama's Muslim speech this morning. Scary stuff!

[> [> Subject: Hillbilly


Author:
BOB
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Date Posted: 16:54:28 06/06/09 Sat

I used to believe there was no person in the world who could tell more and bigger lies than bjboy bill and hillary the haridan but I was so very, very wrong. That trailer trash nigger hussein has bjboy bill and hill beaten and it isn't even close!! I could hardly believe my ears at that speech he gave at Cairo university. I heard excerpts on the Rush show and they were real eye openers. Hussein is a well practiced liar and I believe he is under the control of one of satans demons.
[> [> [> Subject: Bob


Author:
Connie
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Date Posted: 09:43:45 06/07/09 Sun

Indeed there were many lies. One thing I noticed was that he mentioned the overthrow of an Iranian democracy but what he didn't say was that Jimmy Carter was the one responsible for the Ayatollah Khomeini overthrowing the Shah of Iran. The damage Jimmy Carter did to this country in his four years as president is mind boggling but it appears it will be as a gnat on an elephant's hide compared to what's coming with the current president.
[> [> [> Subject: Forum owner disclaimer


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 11:17:04 06/07/09 Sun

Bammy, I feel your pain....but please try to keep the nasty names out of it, will you? That only makes things worse. I know he is frustrating, but don't lose your cool, okay?
xoxo


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