VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1234[5]678910 ]
Subject: Genesis 34 vss 8-24 Post 168


Author:
Hillbilly
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 21:23:42 11/23/11 Wed

Genesis 34:8-24 And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife. 9 And make ye marriages with us, and give your daughters unto us, and take our daughters unto you. 10 And ye shall dwell with us: and the land shall be before you; dwell and trade ye therein, and get you possessions therein. 11 And Shechem said unto her father and unto her brethren, Let me find grace in your eyes, and what ye shall say unto me I will give. 12 Ask me never so much dowry and gift, and I will give according as ye shall say unto me: but give me the damsel to wife. 13 And the sons of Jacob answered Shechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, and said, because he had defiled Dinah their sister: 14 And they said unto them, We cannot do this thing, to give our sister to one that is uncircumcised; for that were a reproach unto us: 15 But in this will we consent unto you: If ye will be as we be, that every male of you be circumcised; 16 Then will we give our daughters unto you, and we will take your daughters to us, and we will dwell with you, and we will become one people. 17 But if ye will not hearken unto us, to be circumcised; then will we take our daughter, and we will be gone. 18 And their words pleased Hamor, and Shechem Hamor's son. 19 And the young man deferred not to do the thing, because he had delight in Jacob's daughter: and he was more honourable than all the house of his father. 20 And Hamor and Shechem his son came unto the gate of their city, and communed with the men of their city, saying, 21 These men are peaceable with us; therefore let them dwell in the land, and trade therein; for the land, behold, it is large enough for them; let us take their daughters to us for wives, and let us give them our daughters. 22 Only herein will the men consent unto us for to dwell with us, to be one people, if every male among us be circumcised, as they are circumcised. 23 Shall not their cattle and their substance and every beast of theirs be ours? only let us consent unto them, and they will dwell with us. 24 And unto Hamor and unto Shechem his son hearkened all that went out of the gate of his city; and every male was circumcised, all that went out of the gate of his city.

The devil is in the details. What is being proposed is not only integration but assimilation. This would accomplish the corruption of the lineage of the Royal Seed which God intended to bring into the world to bring the offer of salvation to a fallen creation. God's plan was for a line from Abraham to Jesus that did not include the Canaanite people..

While we are being presented with historical fact in the passage we can also see this spiritual warfare (Eph. 6:12) which has been from the beginning.. The Old Testament not only documents the history of the Jewish people but also documents the lineage of Jesus. The narrative from the beginning has detailed the underlying path to the promised "Seed". The attempts by Satan to stop this event is a thread woven throughout the stories of the lives of the Patriarchs and their children.

Genesis 3:14-15 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. This is the "seed" that Satan must stop in order to defeat God.

(One seemingly glaring error with this passage is that a woman has no seed. The seed of the man is active and is alive while the egg of the woman is passive and the life in the man must be imparted to the egg of the woman for life to be passed down as offspring.. God abrogates this natural law when it comes to Jesus. Jeremiah 31:22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man. Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Jesus was born without any man being involved. There was no receiving of "seed" from any man and quite contrary to Mormon doctrine God did not have a sexual relationship with Mary!)

Satan has been trying to either destroy the intended line of the promised seed or get God to destroy them through their messing up. He first instigates Cain to kill his brother Able. God raises a second seed in the intended line to Jesus. This is Seth. Next Satan gets the daughters of men to mix with the fallen angels (Gen. 6). The earth is so corrupted that God destroys it down to eight souls. One of the line of the cursed Cain gets on the boat by being married to Ham (Naaman, Gen. 4:22). This line is so corrupt that God curses it through the seed of Ham who is Canaan (Gen. 9:25). Next God calls Abraham and promises him the land of Canaan and that his seed will be as the stars of heaven and as the sands of the sea. God also tells Abraham in Genesis 22:18 that through his seed shall all the nations of the world be blessed. Gal. 3:16 identifies this "seed" as Christ. Only trouble is that Abraham is an old man and Sarai is an old woman past bearing age. This means nothing to God who is able to do all things.

Sarai doubts and gets Abraham to go to bed with Hagar, her hand maid. Hagar is of the line of Ham! Do you see the hand of Satan in this? Who is it that works to get us to doubt God and do things our way instead of God's way? Is it not Satan?

The firstborn of Abraham is Ishmael and the first born inherits the promises normally. Only trouble is that God won't stand for it and tells Abraham the promise will not come through Ishmael but he will have a child through Sarai. Isaac is born and he is called by God Abraham's "only son" (Gen. 22:2). Isaac is forbidden to marry a woman who is a Canaanite and his servant is sent back to his people to find a wife. Rebekah is chosen and from this union we have Esau and Jacob. The conflict between them is so strong that Esau swears to kill his brother Jacob. Jacob flees and winds up with 4 wives and 11 sons. Satan is in a mess. It was hard enough to determine the intended line to the Messiah with only a couple of sons each time but now he must entertain the possibility of God using any of the eleven to fulfill the prophecy of Genesis 3. The obvious answer is to get them all to mess up so that none will be fit for the royal line. This is where we are now. Hamor and Shechem are of the Canaanites and if Satan can get them to inter-marry then in his mind he will have defeated the promise and prophecy.

What stops the plan is the anger that boils up in the brothers of Dinah. They devise a plan to defeat the people of Shechem and rescue their sister. They tell the men that they cannot intermarry with uncircumcised people. This in itself shows that these people are not descended form Ishmael because the descendants of Ishmael also practiced circumcision They were descended from Abraham and their father Ishmael was circumcised and obeyed God. The rite of circumcision was carried on in the descendants of Ishmael..

The intention of Dinah's brothers is not to give up Dinah but to incapacitate the men of Shechem to the point they will be unable to fight..

Coming on down to verse 23 we see that marriage wasn't the only thing Shechem and Hamor were looking for. God had so blessed Jacob and his sons that their wealth was astounding. They knew that by intermingling their families they could come to great financial gain. "Shall not their cattle and their substance and every beast of theirs be ours?" Greed and lust are still great motivators in the world today.

God calls to Himself a pure and holy people. He desired it in His chosen of the Old Testament and He desires it of His children today.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Dang, Hillbilly!


Author:
dori
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:07:58 11/28/11 Mon

This one is going to require a second reading. So much to digest! Great story!!! 8-)


[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-6
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.