VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12345[6]78910 ]
Subject: Dan Chap 12 vss 1-3 Post 62


Author:
Hillbilly
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 15:06:44 06/05/11 Sun

Chapter 11


Daniel 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

As we arrive at the concluding chapter in the Book of Daniel we see the culmination of all things as we know them. Everything in the Book of Daniel was leading to this point. From the progression of the kingdoms in chapter two through the details of the coming kings in the succeeding chapter. Daniel in the lions den is an allegory of the coming time when Israel will face the "roaring lion" of 1 Peter 5:8. The three Hebrews in the fiery furnace is an allegory of the fiery trials that Israel must face. God shut the lions' mouths and God kept the fire from touching the Hebrews in the furnace while those trying to destroy the 3 were themselves destroyed. . Daniel is a story of persecution and deliverance. A story of kings fighting back and forth for the mastery, yet in vain because when the dust settles it will be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords who will stand above the ash heap of kings and kingdoms. Daniel 12 verses 1-3 is a brief summation of "star wars", Israel's deliverance, the judgment and the reward of the faithful.

In verse 1 we are re-introduced to Michael, that mightiest of warrior angels who has stood and fought for the nation of Israel from it's beginning. We find him first aiding God (the pre-incarnate Christ - see chap. 10 vss. 1-6 for the description that matches the risen Saviour.) in his "fight" with the prince of Persia in 10:13. In verse 21 of chapter 10 we find Michael is the only one "that holdeth with me in these things". Again it is God speaking to Daniel in this verse. Michael again shows up here in 12:1 and is said to be standing up for the "children of thy people" which of course are Daniel's people the Jews. The focal point here should be the time element given:."and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:". This is the time of the toes and feet of Nebuchadnezzar's dream image which shall be destroyed by the "the stone (which) was cut out of the mountain without hands". The description of the time element is that it is during "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time". Note that it is a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation. This excludes the flood and everything before because the first nations show up after the flood.

This should be proof positive that the events of Daniel are not all in the past. The time span of Daniel is from Nebuchadnezzar to the Kingdom age. The events of the kings and kings show that progression. Most if not all the kingdoms given before Jesus Christ will come back into play during these last days. Thinking of the severity of the "time of trouble" cited during this specific time shows that it could not be talking about the time of the fall of Jerusalem around 70 A.D. World War I and World War II are infinitely greater than those wars and trouble before the coming of our Lord. The Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman wars all put together would be dwarfed by these present day wars that encompass the entire globe. We are specifically being referred to "Jacob's trouble" in the Book of Jeremiah: Jeremiah 30:4-8 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. 5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. 6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? (Jacob/Israel, see Rev. 12) wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? 7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. 8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his (beast, anti-Christ, Satan) yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

The reference to Michael standing up is given detail in Revelation 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Given this passage we can better understand other passages which so often are taken spiritually or figuratively instead of literally. Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Isaiah 24:19-21 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. 21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. Psalm 82:6-8 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

This war in outer space and then "the aliens have landed" as the heavens and earth reel to and fro from the cataclysmic battles in the heavens as Satan is cast from the 2nd heaven along with his evil host that works his bidding. Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Finally in the 1st three verses we should notice that immediately after the war in heaven we are given to understand there will be a resurrection and judgment. All is in order as it is presented throughout the Bible. This day of Jacob's trouble is almost here. The battle lines are being drawn. Michael is arming himself and Jesus is getting ready to "saddle up" along with His army (Rev. 19:11-21) The battle is set. The contestants are at ready and the time is at hand. What is important to us is that we are ready. Israel must go through this time of trouble. The world must go through this time of trouble. The Church won't. We are not appointed to wrath (1 Ths. 5:9). If anyone reading this is not ready or is not sure they are ready and will be counted worthy to escape all these things (Luke 21:36) I would urge you to seek Jesus with all your heart. Repent and ask Jesus into your heart. This is the only way, short of death, that you will escape this coming tribulation.

If you are not part of Israel you won't have Michael standing for you. If you are not saved you won't have Jesus interceding on your behalf. All you will have to look forward to is a horrible death and then the words from the "Righteous Judge" (2 Tim. 4:8) "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. " (Matt. 7:23)

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Still recuperating from my ....


Author:
dori
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 23:41:18 06/07/11 Tue

....long weekend, so I will read this and the latest Genesis study tomorrow and comment then. Thanks for keeping the homefires burning, Hillbilly. Smooooches!
[> Subject: This study is truly bringing all that you have written into perspective, Hillbilly


Author:
dori
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:58:53 06/10/11 Fri

And I noted that your most recent study from Genesis is focused on Jacob, just as the study on Daniel speaks of Jacob's trouble. Was this coincidence, or are you setting this up to make a point? I will be anxiously awaiting the next studies. 8-)
[> [> Subject: Not setting anything up


Author:
Hillbilly
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:43:18 06/10/11 Fri

It is just coincidental that we are about to enter a time of trial and testing in Jacob's life at the same time we come to the end of Daniel where we see the great climax of Israel's struggle.

Jacob means "supplanter". As Jacob he bought his brother's birthright and stole his brother's blessing.

When Jacob wrestled with the angel (which was actually a Theophany of sorts as God appeared physically in the form of an angel ) and prevailed in getting a blessing from Him, God changed his name to Israel which means "power with God".

When the tribulation comes Israel is in "punishment mode" (out of favor as Jacob) and as such will face great tribulation. Jacob was not really in favor with God until he wrestled (in prayer) all night with God and would not let God go until he received his blessing.

Israel, after the tribulation and conversion during the tribulation will once again have power with God as Israel.
[> [> [> Subject: Israel sure has been paying for a long time for


Author:
dori
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:29:55 06/11/11 Sat

its transgressions. I am so happy that once they pay the final debt, they will be on good standing again with God and be blessed. How many of us will miss the whole importance of that blessing?


[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-6
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.