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Subject: Genesis 32 vss 13-23 Post 163


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 07:31:42 10/19/11 Wed

Genesis 32:13-23 And he lodged there that same night; and took of that which came to his hand a present for Esau his brother; 14 Two hundred she goats, and twenty he goats, two hundred ewes, and twenty rams, 15 Thirty milch camels with their colts, forty kine, and ten bulls, twenty she asses, and ten foals. 16 And he delivered them into the hand of his servants, every drove by themselves; and said unto his servants, Pass over before me, and put a space betwixt drove and drove. 17 And he commanded the foremost, saying, When Esau my brother meeteth thee, and asketh thee, saying, Whose art thou? and whither goest thou? and whose are these before thee? 18 Then thou shalt say, They be thy servant Jacob's; it is a present sent unto my lord Esau: and, behold, also he is behind us. 19 And so commanded he the second, and the third, and all that followed the droves, saying, On this manner shall ye speak unto Esau, when ye find him. 20 And say ye moreover, Behold, thy servant Jacob is behind us. For he said, I will appease him with the present that goeth before me, and afterward I will see his face; peradventure he will accept of me. 21 So went the present over before him: and himself lodged that night in the company. 22 And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok. 23 And he took them, and sent them over the brook, and sent over that he had.


Jacob has camped at the ford of the Jordan and is mulling his options. What he settles on is in the best tradition of middle easterners. He does two things. First he counts out a bribe to appease His brother as we read in verse 20: "I will appease him with the present that goeth before me, and afterward I will see his face; peradventure he will accept of me." The bribe amounts to approximately 580 animals in all. Quite a bribe I would say. Possibly the selection of The gift was based on 10% and if this is the case you can well imagine the wealth that Jacob has accumulated in Haran. The wording of verse 13 i.e. "of that which came to his hand" is reminiscent of the tithe which was a tenth of all that came to a persons hand.. This amount is also indicative of his feeling of guilt toward Esau in what he had done to him. The 10% is a guess on my part but regardless that many animals shows his wealth and standing.


Secondly he shows the value of his family to himself. He divides his family in groups according to the mothers and children and servants and sends them in different waves over the river. What does Jacob do? He stays behind to let the gifts soften Esau's resolve to do Jacob harm. Jacob could not know what Esau would do. He had already stated he feared for the safety of his wives and children yet here he his remaining behind to see what happens. "And he took them, and sent them over the brook, and sent over that he had." I get the feeling that Jacob would have hid like a rat in a hole if Esau had attacked his family. Jacob's "present" was Esau's for the taking if he chose to take the animals and still attack.


It makes a person wonder at the unwillingness of many Semites to die in defense of their wives and family. Remember how Abraham tried to pass off Sarai as his sister when in Egypt and again in Gerar with Abimelech king of Gerar. . Issac does the same thing willing for his wife to be taken by another man rather than face the possibility of personal death. Lot is willing to give up his two daughters to be abused rather than fight for the angels who show up at his door. This is one thing I definitely have trouble with. Paul's attitude and teaching was far different from what we see so many times in the middle eastern countries. Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Christ died for His "bride" and we as Christian men should be willing to do no less for our wives if it should come to that necessity..


It, I suppose, is impossible for the western mind to grasp and understand the customs of the semitic nomads and later the Arab and Muslims of today. It is totally foreign to those uf us brought up under Christianity. While the Israelites of today are "westernized" for the most part had it not been for the influence of Christianity on their lives I dare say they would still retain many of the customs we see in the Muslim countries today. One only has to look at the woman taken in adultry in John chapter 8 to see the double standard toward women in Israel under the law. She was blamed for adultry but the man was let go. The law had provided for both to be stoned yet they had let the man go.

Jacob seemed perfectly willing to sacrifice his own family and wealth as long as he could escape retribution. Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.


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Replies:
[> Subject: HIllbilly, about this part of what you wrote:


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 09:53:32 10/25/11 Tue

"It makes a person wonder at the unwillingness of many Semites to die in defense of their wives and family. Remember how Abraham tried to pass off Sarai as his sister when in Egypt and again in Gerar with Abimelech king of Gerar. . Issac does the same thing willing for his wife to be taken by another man rather than face the possibility of personal death. Lot is willing to give up his two daughters to be abused rather than fight for the angels who show up at his door. This is one thing I definitely have trouble with. Paul's attitude and teaching was far different from what we see so many times in the middle eastern countries. Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Christ died for His "bride" and we as Christian men should be willing to do no less for our wives if it should come to that necessity.."
I'm thinking there's another lesson behind this, am I right? The men you mention--Abraham and Jacob--were chosen by God for special consideration, yet they had these seemingly very human flaws. Was there a reason?
[> [> Subject: God choosing


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 17:56:34 10/25/11 Tue

"The men you mention--Abraham and Jacob--were chosen by God for special consideration, yet they had these seemingly very human flaws. Was there a reason?"

When trying to understand these things we must keep in mind that God does not think nor see as we do. When choosing men for His service there is always this thing called "election". Election is God choosing according to his will and purpose and he doesn't ask our advice in the matter.

Paul addressed this choice of Jacob over Esau in Romans 9:10-12 where he wrote: "And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Esau was not any more a sinner than Jacob was but as we have stated in the past God chose the 2nd son over the 1st many times. Each time it was a precursor to the 2nd man (1 Cor. 15:47) which is Jesus Christ. Shem was a second son, Isaac was a second son, Moses was a second son and I suspect that Abraham was a second son though we are not told that in the scriptures but he had a brother. David was the second king. The New Testament is chosen over the Old. There will be a second or New Heaven for the first is passed away (Rev. 21:1) In the same light we must be "born again" as the first birth is corrupt. The "choice" then many times becomes prophetic.

I'm sure also that God looks on the inward man for character .Abraham, David, Moses and even Jacob. Jacob had to develop an honest and upright character and I am sure that God saw that he would. Many has been the drunk vile God rejecting sinner that God saw something in that no one else could see. God cleaned him up and then called him to service.

When looking on the heart God sees sin in every heart Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

God, as the potter, takes us as the clay and molds us as he sees fit to the point we will allow. There in may lie the difference as much as any thing else. How much will we allow God to mold and shape our lives that we can be a vessel to His honor? These great men of God in the Bible had to be molded and shaped into a vessel God could use. None was good(Luke 18:19) but God made them into vessels of honor. They, without exception, were pliable in his hands.
[> [> Subject: I knew you'd give me a good answer, HB. 8-)


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 19:01:47 10/25/11 Tue

I especially liked this part:
"Esau was not any more a sinner than Jacob was but as we have stated in the past God chose the 2nd son over the 1st many times. Each time it was a precursor to the 2nd man (1 Cor. 15:47) which is Jesus Christ. Shem was a second son, Isaac was a second son, Moses was a second son and I suspect that Abraham was a second son though we are not told that in the scriptures but he had a brother. David was the second king. The New Testament is chosen over the Old. There will be a second or New Heaven for the first is passed away (Rev. 21:1) In the same light we must be "born again" as the first birth is corrupt. The "choice" then many times becomes prophetic."
That's why I like your studies. You bring things to my attention I could have never found on my own. Thank you!


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