No, it's not a bad -- Friends Sharing Scripture

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, [7], 8, 9, 10 ]

Subject: No, it's not a bad

Author:
Hillbilly

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 20:35:12 07/01/10 Thu
In reply to: dori 's message, "Thanks, Hillbilly" on 19:38:27 07/01/10 Thu

error at all. Most people don't analyze what the scriptures are actually saying. Heaven is a material, physical place. John saw it, Paul saw it and you can go to Genesis 1 and see that God created the heavens.

Much of the confusion comes from the way sometimes the phrase Kingdom of God is used.

In order to enter God's physical kingdom you must first be in right standing with God. You must enter the spiritual realm of God. Without salvation you cannot see the Kingdom of God. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Compare this: Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Context is everything. Notice in John 3 salvation enables a person to see the Kingdom of God yet in Luke 13 those thrust out have seen the Kingdom yet have not obtained salvation. An obvious contradiction? Not at all. One is speaking of the spiritual kingdom within and one is speaking of the physical kingdom. So when Deb is saying the phrase Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God can be used interchangeably she is partially correct. Context is everything.

Let's compare: Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Matthew 8:11-12 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It would be silly to think that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob could enter into you and sit down and eat wouldn't it? Yet if there are not two kingdoms and it was all spiritual that is exactly what would be implied in the scriptures.

One thing that makes it a little easier. When the phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used it is always looking toward the physical kingdom that has been promised since God called Abraham. When the phrase "Kingdom of God" is used you must closely look at the context to see which kingdom is in view (sometimes both can be). We should also remember a person must first be part of the spiritual kingdom before he or she can take part in the physical kingdom coming on this earth soon.

Hope this helps.

Dwight

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> [> [> Subject: whoops

Author:
Sandy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 23:15:18 07/01/10 Thu

I understand your thoughts on this, but have to disagree that she isn't on the right track.

If you consider what Jesus said in John 3:12, which clearly tells us that all He did tell Nicodemus at first was and earthly thing. And how that all of that can be true, was the heavenly thing from God, it does IMO say that Jesus was definitely speaking of entering into a kingdom here after all via the cross once we are born again. which admittedly threw me when I first began to read what John 3:12 did say, that is until the Lord revealed some more scripture to me that tells us what he was saying there. Meaning he was telling us where the kingdom of God is at that He brought for us to enter into, which is within us, in order to be able to walk in His righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy ghost, that written in Rm. 14:17. You gave the other scripture about the kingdom being within of course.

I considered it as a very good teaching myself. But that is because the Lord began to reveal some of this to me she did share there some time ago.

Meaning you must be born again to walk in righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Ghost within, that being the kingdom that Jesus brought for us to walk in here via the cross.

It does not eliminate what happens when we do go to Heaven either. Just adds to what is available to us right here before we do go is all.

Just what I believe the Lord revealed to me about this anyway. Even though true, I was taught and beleived that Jesus was speaking of heaven when he mentioned the kingdom until I did read John 3 12, finally wondering if that was wrong after all because of the way he did say what he told Nicodemus at first was the earthly thing, and how this happens comes from the Lord in Heaven giving us the Spirit of God of course.

Something to think about and study a little further anyway.

luv ya,
Sandy

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Sandy,

Author:
Hillbilly
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:26:16 07/02/10 Fri

You are not disagreeing with what I said at all. When Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born again He was speaking of that spiritual kingdom where Jesus rules and reigns in the heart.

What I was trying to impart is that many times when speaking of the kingdom Jesus and the writers of the New Testament books were speaking of the physical kingdom that is coming.

Look at these two passages closely: John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

See how Jesus hinted at a future kingdom. (to paraphrase: At this time my kingdom is not from here) Now look at this passage after His crucifixion. Acts 1:6-7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

One of the first questions Jesus was asked by His apostles after the resurrection concerned when the kingdom was going to be re-established. They were still looking for the physical kingdom although they had Jesus residing in their hearth through the Holy Ghost that had been given to them in John 20:22. The Kingdom of God had come to them and they were looking for the kingdom of heaven.

I am a part of the Kingdom of God at present. I will rule and reign with Jesus Christ in His Kingdom when He comes back in Revelation 19.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Whoops, sorry I did misunderstand you Hillbilly
Author: Sandy [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 19:02:03 07/04/10 Sun Thanks for sharing this with me. As I thought you meant what so many do believe.