| Subject: Re: Trinity proof? oooops |
Author:
Ronald
|
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Date Posted: 18:39:25 09/09/02 Mon
Author Host/IP: nycmny1-ar3-4-35-071-134.nycmny1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net/4.35.71.134
In reply to:
Mike
's message, "Re: Trinity proof? oooops" on 14:15:12 08/06/02 Tue
>>I don't believe in the trinity but how does one
>>reconcile the following scripture with the fact that
>>the trinity is a false doctrine?
>
>
>This is what I left out.
>
>For there are three that bear record in heaven, the
>Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three
>are one. (1 JOHN 5:7 KJV)**
Assuming the verse is not spurious, it does not say that these three are three persons in one God, as the trinity teaches.
Regarding 1 John 5:7,8, Paul S. L. Johnson states: "Assuming that this text were genuine, it would not prove that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God; for the Greek word for 'one' here is 'hen,' and is neuter; and the masculine word Theos (Greek God) cannot be supplied after it; for the Greek word for one in that case would have to be heis (masculine for one). Nor can the Greek word for being (ousia [as in the trinitarian formula: "mia ousia, treis hypostaseis"]) be supplied after it, because ousia is feminine, which would require the feminine of one, mia. If the passage were genuine we would have to supply a neuter noun, e.g., like pneuma (disposition), after hen in this text even as we have to do so in John 10:30: 'My Father and I are one' (hen) disposition. It could not be theos (God) or ousia (Being), which would respectively require the masculine heis and the feminine mia." -- Ephiphany Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. I - God, page 477.
The Father, Son, and holy spirit are one in disposition, one in heart, mind, and will; but not one God. The Bible nowhere states that there are three persons in one God. Nor does it ever say that there is a being called God who is more than one person. In the Bible, one person IS one personal being, and one personal being IS one person always, and never more than one.
It was Satan who, in producing a counterfeit for everything in the Bible, counterfeited the true God as one Being composed of three persons. This unbiblical, unreasonable and unfactual distinction between the words *person* and *being* when referring to a personal being should be avoided. It is surely an error invented by Satan to deceive -- a work of darkness, a self-contradiction, which no one can understand or explain, while Bible doctrines are all explainable and understandable.
Additionally, we might say, if the logic were valid that the Father's, Son's and holy spirit's oneness in John 5:7,8 must be that of being, we would have to say that Paul and Appolos were one being (1 Corinthians 3:6-8)! Of course they were two separate beings. Hen being used of them in 1 Corinthians 3:8 (not mia, which would be necessary to agree with the feminine ousia, being) proves that their oneness was not one of being but of spirit, disposition (Acts 4:32; 1 Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3-6,13; Philippians 1:27; 2:2; 4:2) Hence 1 John 5:7,8 does not by the Greek word hen prove that the Father, Son and holy spirit are one being any more than 1 Corinthians 3:8 proves by the word hen that Paul and Apollos were one being; but the same word and form of that word, proving Paul and Apollos to one in heart, mind and will, gives presumptive evidence that the same word and form that word in John 10:30 proves the same of the Father and Son.
But we have more than presumptive proof of this. When Jesus prayed (John 17:11,21,22) that all of the saints may be one (hen, not heis, nor mia) he did not pray that they be all one being, which would be nonsense, but that their unity may be one in mind, heart and will. Since the oneness for which He prayed for them was not a oneness of being, the oneness between Him and the Father cannot be that of being, because Jesus in John 17:11,22 prays that the oneness for which He prayed on their behalf be patterned after the oneness that exists between the Father and himself: "That they may be one as we are." Hence the oneness between the Father and Jesus is not one of being, but one of mind, heart and will. Moreoever Jesus defines this oneness in verse 21 as follows: "that they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me [Yahweh was in Jesus by his holy spirit, disposition, (John 14:17,20) and I in thee [Jesus was in the Father (John 14:10,11,20) by accepting and keeping the Father as his head, i.e,, by his being and remaining in the consecrated attitude. (1 Corinthians 3:23; 11:3 are passages that also strongly prove Jesus' inferiority to the Father, and the Father's being the Supreme Being)], that [thus the Father and the Son, by their spirit, disposition, being in them and they by their spirit of consecration, being in them (1 John 5:20; Colossians 3:3; 1 Corinthians 12:12,13] they also may be one in us . . . that they may be one, even as we are one." Thus these verses prove that the same kind of oneness as exists between the saints, also exists between the Father and Son and vice versa. Therefore, since the oneness that exists between the saints is not one of being, but one of heart, mind, and will, the oneness that exists between the Father and Sons is not one of being, but one of will, heart, and mind.
Christian love,
Ronald
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