Create a New Forum Admin Login Member Login Contribute to Voyager Search VoyForums Help Desk VoyForums Exchange VoyForums Directory/Categories VoyForums Homepage VoyForums News FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Mon, May 18 2026, 0:07:10

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, [3] ]

Subject: Salvation Author: Pahu [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: Mon, Jan 01 2007, 14:59:09 My understanding of salvation, as revealed by God in His inspired word, is that we are all sinners on the way to the lake of fire and annihilation. Jesus Christ died in our place so that we would have the opportunity to escape eternal death and receive the free gift of eternal life. Even though salvation is free, we have to fulfill a condition. We must repent of our sins (lawbreaking (1Jhn. 3:4)), submit to Him as Lord, and obey His Ten Commandment Law, which is the foundation of righteousness. God will not allow anyone in heaven who will not obey Him. Since Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven given to mankind through Whom we will receive the free gift of eternal life (Acts 4:12), there is no other religion that can save us. The Law cannot save anyone. Salvation only comes through the fact that Jesus shed His blood in our place. He suffered our punishment so we would not have to. Salvation is offered as a free gift. We can do nothing to earn it. We must, however, fulfill the condition of repenting of our sins, submitting to Him as Lord, and obeying His Ten Commandment Law. Salvation is free. Repentance, submission to Jesus as LORD, and obedience to His Ten Commandments is a condition we must meet. Think of it this way: Suppose your rich uncle said he would give you a million dollars if you would quit smoking for a year. Your uncle earned the million dollars. Quitting smoking is a condition. The money is free if you fulfill the condition. Quitting smoking will never “earn” you a million dollars. Here are some verses that seem to support my understanding of salvation: “If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). “Repent (and each of you be baptized) in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). “The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so…However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him” (Romans 8:7,9). “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36[NASB]). “He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation” (Hebrews 5:9). So it seems that we can conclude that IF WE WOULD ENTER ETERNAL LIFE, WE MUST REPENT OF OUR SINS, SUBMIT TO JESUS CHRIST AS LORD, AND OBEY HIS TEN COMMANDMENT LAW. If we do not obey Him, He is not our Lord. If He is not our Lord He cannot be our Savior. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: ARE YOU REALLY A CHRISTIAN? Author: Pahu [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Thu, Sep 13 2007, 15:10:37 ARE YOU REALLY A CHRISTIAN? Ø Not every one who says to Jesus, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but those who do the will of His Father in heaven. Many will say to Him, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name and in your name cast out devils and in your name done many wonderful works?” And then He will profess to them, “I never knew you: depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. (Mt. 7:21-23). Ø People honor Jesus with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him (Mk. 7:6). Ø They worship Him in vain, teaching for doctrine men’s rules (Mk. 7:7). Ø And exchanging His Ten Commandment Law for men’s traditions (Mk. 7:8). Ø Resisting sound doctrine to suit their own desires, they gather to themselves many teachers who will say what their itching ears want to hear (2 Tim. 4:3). Ø Turning their ears away from the truth, they embrace myths (2 Tim. 4:4). Ø “And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them” (Rom. 1:28-30). Ø They have a form of godliness, but deny its power, and we should have nothing to do with them (2 Tim. 3:5). Ø They are blind guides, and when the blind lead the blind, they all fall into the pit (Mt. 15:14). Ø For there is a way that seems right but ends in death (Pr. 14:12; 16:25). Ø And nearly everyone is going that way (Mt. 7:13). Ø For the whole world is deceived (Rev. 12:9). Ø Except the elect (Mt. 24:24). Ø But those who would enter eternal life must obey all ten of His Commandments (Mt. 19:17). Ø For it we disobey just one Commandment, we are lawbreakers and therefore sinners (Jas. 2:10). Ø For sin is the transgression of His Ten Commandment Law (1 Jhn. 3:4). Ø And the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord as well as our Savior (Rom. 6:23). Ø For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life (Jhn. 3:16). Ø And Christ is the resurrection and the life, and everyone who believes in Him will receive everlasting life (Jhn. 11:25). Ø If they obey Him (Jhn. 3:36 NASB). Ø For if we will repent (and be baptized) in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, His Heavenly Father will forgive us and give us the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Ø And unless we have the Spirit of Christ, we do not belong to Him—and we are not Christians (Rom. 8:9). Ø And therefore we remain unredeemed sinners—and lost (Rom. 3:23). Ø We must repent or perish (Lk. 13:3,5). Ø And God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should repent (2 Pet. 3:9). Ø And every Christian does repent continually for the forgiveness of his sins, in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord as well as our Savior (1 Jhn. 1:9). Ø And obeys all ten of His Commandments, and remains faithful to Him (Rev. 12:17; 14:12). Ø Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, our Lord as well as our Savior (Rom. 8:1). Ø If they obey Him (Heb. 5:9) [From “Reincarnation in the Bible?” http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-12387-2]

[> [> Subject: Response to " ARE YOU REALLY A CHRISTIAN?" Author: Rodger Tutt (http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: Fri, Nov 16 2007, 6:31:08 To the extent that anyone is able to successfully measure up to the list of "qualifications" listed on that post, why do you think that is so? SELF-HELP SALVATION AND PRIDE By James Coram, director of THE CONCORDANT PUBLISHING CONCERN Some Christians think that the gaining of their salvation is, in part, a human achievement. Other Christians think that the maintaining of their salvation is, in part, a human achievement. Yet other Christians think that both the gaining and the maintaining of their salvation is, in part, a human achievement. Even though it be ever so small, many Christians think that their part (which becomes the most important part) is absolutely necessary for the success of their salvation. God’s part, they think, is not sufficient What everyone needs most is a willing heart and a change in their stubborn will. But many Christians think that at that point, just when we need Him the most, God lets us down. They think that He will not grant anyone a willing heart or effect a change in their stubborn will. This is something, they think, that they must supply on their own. Even if we have been graced to come to Jesus, we tend to suppose that this was thanks to ourselves. Indeed, many seem to become much more proud and self reliant after “conversion” than ever before. And they seek to cover this up through much ill-disguised religious parlance in which it is true that they do give much, but certainly not all the credit to God. For example, “The Lord did it all, after I let Him.” or “I could never be where I am today without His assistance.” This increase in pride is the result of having been subjected to such an abundance of human-independence teaching in an atmosphere in which it is continuously encouraged and reinforced, verified and justified with much approbation and exaltation. After all, such believers are sure that they, unlike others, have “made their decision for Christ.” And, they say, this has not occurred in the grace of God as a result of their having been chosen before the disruption of the world (even if the Scriptures do say so), but is the result and is thanks to their very own decision. Though others may far excel them in lesser things, when it comes to what is most important, they think it is obvious that they are superior. They think, “At least I was willing and sufficiently disciplined, for when it mattered the most I did the right thing and the switch got thrown, so people like me will go up to heaven while everyone else will go down to hell.” Just think of it. Picture this type of self-help salvation and pride. For all eternity (or at least for the ages) they will be able to say, “All those miserable sinners burning in hell could have gone to heaven too. Certainly the work of Christ saved no one at all. It wasn’t supposed to. All it did was make salvation possible. Besides, every one of those sinners deserves to be in everlasting burning, for unlike me, they didn’t do what they should have and could have. And here I am in eternal bliss, perfectly good and perfectly happy, even though billions of my fellow creatures are perfectly miserable and doomed to stay that way forever (or at least for the ages). Yet in the end I only got here myself because of what I did, not because of the sacrifice of Christ. I chose to meet God’s demands for His (so-called) free gift and I did so. I wasn’t given any special grace. It wasn’t any easier for me than for anyone else. It’s too late now anyway so let them burn. Too bad for them, but not for me. I’m happy and so is God. In fact we’re all happy here.” You see, that’s the ultimate selfishness of that view and that’s what it leads to. One can only avoid boasting in self by truly ceasing to believe things and say things that are inherently of a boastful nature. It is only the word of the cross that effectively and wisely trains us in this true humility so that “if anyone is boasting, in the Lord let him be boasting,” as Paul says. It is an empty gesture to go through the motions of giving all the glory to God, while at the same time continually believing that good decisions and acts are things which ultimately owe their existence to one’s own self, God having but made them possible. May He enlighten us to see truly that it is “in the grace of God that I am what I am.” After thought. Since the salvation of even one soul is 100% by God’s grace plus nothing, the salvation of all souls will be no problem for God at all according to His sovereign perfect timing for each individual.