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Date Posted: 17:28:42 07/14/02 Sun
Author: Rachel (sorry for length etc, but you've gotta agree, here!)
Subject: I feel a MEGA rant coming on now! (sorry! But i need to do this!!)
Someone on another board (I won't say, i'll let you guess, though) has just posted a message, the title being "when will xander grow a pair and become a man?", and the message being, "The way he treated Anya, Cordelia, the way he all of a sudden acts courageous around a chipped Spike."
ARGH!!!!!! I'm refraining from answering that on there, in case I'm considered to be flaming the person. I may reply, I may not. I'll see. Anyway ... HUH???? WHAT?????
"The way he treated Cordelia" ... riiiight ... how about how Willow treated Oz? Oh? What? that not a problem? How about how he DID grow up, tried to make amends, bought her that prom dress (which was SO sweet of him) and they were fine with each other. not to mention, that was 3 seasons ago, and therefore not relevant to how he is now!
As for Anya ... well, i won't say he did the right thing, goodness, if i was dumped at the alter, i'd be very angry and hurt, but surely he's hurting her less by not marrying her, than have something worse happen further along the line? He had huge doubts about it, and so I think in the long run, he did what was right.
Now ... for the Spike thing. Did he not also act couragous around Angelus, when at the hospital? What? was he not in danger then? how about when that dead guy wanted to blow up the school? I'd say Xander was in a HECK of a lot of danger, then, and was totally full of courage. So he's a bad person for standing up to Spike? How the hell does that make sense?
And how about the fact that Willow tried to kill them all, Dawn shoplifts, Anya has created mayhem in the past (I know it's the past, but hey, they didn't care that what Xander did was in the past!), Buffy has made huge mistakes ... ie sleeping with Spike, Riley let vamps suck his blood ... i could go on and on. WHY PICK ON XANDER? Out of all of them, he's made the least mistakes, which have had not so dire repercussions!!!
And DON'T get me started on the of the responses to said thread! (Agh, too late! I've gotta rant about them too)
Now, some defended Xander very well, and i love those people. However we also have ...
"Xander has always insulted and bilittled Buffy. If I were Buffy I would not be his friend"
Err ... what? When??? How about their meaningful talks, like when Buffy was training, and he was in the big suit, Buffy was stressing about how she's gotta change to get a guy, and he said "Or you could just try being Buffy" How, in any way, is that insulting or belittling her??? Also in Seeing Red, they bonded really well (until she got shot ... hey, let's blame Xander for that, too! After all, if he hadn't been talking to her, they wouldn't have been in the field of shooting! Oh! And then Tara would still be alive! It's all Xander's fault!!! (Sorry, getting sarcy now *smacks self* Stop it, Rachel!))
"One thing i hate about xander is the way he make anti-Angel and Anti-Spike comment.Most of the time he didn't even know the whole situation before passing judgment"
Hello? Can you say vampires? I think we established way back in season one, that he didn't like vampires. And, ok, he didn't know the whole situation, but tell me, how was Buffy and Spike good for Buffy? Ok, it was the only way Buffy could feel at all, but were they good feelings? i think not!!! I could go on here, but there's more ...
"It really creeped me out how offended he was that Buffy didn't tell him who she was sleeping with. OMG, can you say "None of your damn business!"? Xander needed to back off; her sexual life is none of his business.
Xander has also hated Angel, even though he has a soul. Will he do the same to Spike? Sources point to yes.
Xander needs to stop and think about other people besides himself. I'm not saying that he hasn't done good things, but he often acts self-righteous, and it bothers me.
I miss funny Xander, not moping, leave your bride at the altar because you're insecure Xander.
Sheeeesh! No!!!! for goodness sakes! tell me people, if your best friend was sleeping with a guy who's killed hundreds of people, has no soul, (is, well, um, dead, actually) and tried to rape your best friend, would you not be angry at this guy? *sigh* I'm bordering on giving up, here, all this Xander bashing is depressing me.
And don't get me wrong, i like Spike. Just not Buffy and Spike, and I don't see why it's a problem that Xander has a problem!
And I cannot say anymore, because the thread has now been deleted. (I did save it, however, if ever I need to rant again)
but in answer to all of them, Xander has single handedly saved the world, as also has he saved it as part of the group. he is loyal to his friends, and stands by them. Why bash him?
Sorry for ranting, especially when it was this long. *whew* need a glass of water now ... excuse me ...
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*Big kiss to Rachel* That was wonderful. I don't think I can rant better myself -- UHC, 22:25:58 07/14/02 Sun [1]
In fact I think you have a handle on my personal style of ranting. Which in my opinion is a good thing.
Xander bashing has become a past time at many boards (I"m not even talking about the B&S here, any Buffy boards out there) He is the prime target for slamming and critisizm. And I'll give this in. He needs to quit being down about the wedding. Realize you did the right thing, though painful and move on, change about yourself what was the problem and you'll be fine. I don't however think Xander is whiny or mopey beyond anything anyone else on the show has done.
Angel moped for 3 seasons and he got his own show because of this. Spike was all "woah is me Buffy won't love me, I'm so hurt, why is the world so unfair." Buffy goes off to LA to "be by herself and deal" because she had to kill a "VAMPIRE" and really hasn't been able to get pass the fact that she had 2, only 2 failed romances (come on girl thats not that many) Willow was crying for like 5 episodes after Oz left and it was really tiring. Giles just fucking Left. Dawn has been nothing but a whining self absorbed bitch since she arrived on the show. And Anya, Anya has worried about no one but herself and Xander since her arrival in Sunnydale until recently. (Though she wasn't whiny or mopy up till they gave her justifiable reason to be) So why is Xander the only one taking grief for getting up set when he finally gets to act a little. NB has said himself that he was happy he finally got to do something besides tell bad jokes this season. He got to try out some Drama. People are afraid of Change. This is the best I can come up with.
As far as Xander growing a pair. I'm sorry but he really has had the most to lose and the least to work with in terms of fighting, and he still is always there when ever he is needed and even those times when they didn't think they needed him. And the ballsiest thing he did was not marrying Anya at the wedding. It sucked I agree, but actually facing up and admitting he had screwed up and that this shouldn't happen was a brave thing to do. what wasn't brave was waiting for it to go that far. He should have admitted he had doubts before that point. but as far as that day. Realizing things weren't right and facing the facts of that, was the best thing he could do in that situation. (No he shouldn't have just walked off, But I do believe the director did this more because they wanted to show how heartbroken Anya was rather than to show what a bad guy Xander was)
The thing that I think has brought about all this XAnder bashage has been the fact that X is the only one who hasn't forgotten the truth about everyones favorite bottledblonde vampire. He is the one person who has really never given Spike a break, and all these people are so infatuated with the castrated impotent one they attack anyone who doesn't think the way they do. of couse we all like to protect our favorite character. But the main difference in this case is Spike is the bad guy. Xander is the good guy. So in order to try to even the balance they jump on every little thing Xander has ever done. And since Xander hasn't slaughtered thousands or tortured for the sheer pleasure of it, they have to grasp at anything they can. And this season which was full of Scooby wrong doings they have had a hayday.
Ok stopping before I really get going.
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Awww, thankyou! *Kiss* -- Rachel, 08:29:46 07/15/02 Mon [1]
Though I still think you rant better. I get a little sarcy once I get into it, so I must stop myself before i come off as being bitchy! (I don't come off bitchy, do I? Cause that's not my intention!!!)
Maybe people bash Xander because he's pretty normal. I mean, with the others you can say "Ah, well, you know, Slayer, Key, Vampire, Witch, Ex-Demon, blah blah ..." so in a way, they have an excuse for their behaviour. Then there's regular Xander. What's his excuse for behaving the way he does? Well, in all honesty, if that is why Xander's singled out, I am very sad! *Insert sad face* Just cause the others are kinda out of the ordinary, doesn't mean they have any more right to behave the way they do, so I say, if you're going to pick on Xander, pick on all of them! Xander, in my opinion has caused the least hurt and pain to anyone, as compared to everyone else. (Bar Dawn, I suppose all she's done is steal and whine, though I personally think stealing is worse than breaking up with someone at a bad time)
I'll stop before i get into this, because i don't want to bore you with another rant! lol!
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Yep! Alas, I no seem to have the........ -- Lijdrec - Captain of Bowmen, 00:20:53 07/15/02 Mon [1]
.........strength of will to jump to the defense of Xander in these situations. It tires me to see the same weary arguements against a character whose only concern has been the protection of his loved ones. Therefore, I abrogate that duty to those younger and whose spirit for Xander burns with greater fire.
My days of the Xander rant are drawing to a close. I now find myself limited to the snarky one-liners shot like arrows in the night. Though my aim be true, it is still a pale reflection of my former glory.
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That was supposed to be --- Alas, I no *longer* seem to have the........ -- Lijdrec, 00:24:11 07/15/02 Mon [1]
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LOL Lijdrec! -- Rachel, 08:31:41 07/15/02 Mon [1]
I haven't ranted before, until I found this board, so my days are only just beginning. If you want to hand down your pointers on how to give a good rant, i'll be your faithful student!
And very sad that i've never seen any of your rants! *sigh*
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Several mini's occurred on BC&S, FanForum got my more boistrous Xander defenses. -- Lijdrec....;-), 09:04:40 07/15/02 Mon [1]
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I, like Lijdre, pretty much avoid the bashing at this point... -- Shell, 08:14:43 07/15/02 Mon [1]
At a certain point, it just becomes clear when the opposition isn't listening at all, and that takes all the fun out of a good rant! I agree with you guys completely, though, sans one point: Although I think the X-bashing is in part because of his views on Spike, I think the overwhelming reason that people aren't giving him a break is because he became so far removed from his former self. More than any other character, he is expected to lighten the mood, and all of a sudden he goes and quits with the quips cold turkey. Perfectly underdstandable, in his situation, but people who are not die-hard Xander fans usually only like him for his humor. So I think they are reacting to the void.
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I'm not sure about the whole being the furthest removed from his former self, bit, but ... -- Rachel, 08:39:36 07/15/02 Mon [1]
I do agree that it could play a part. I however, did think he lightened the mood in some eps this season. And I think the fact that the whole season was so dark and dreary, is the main problem. All the characters we more depressed this season, not just Xander. It's just more evident for his character.
As for being far removed from his former self, yes, i agree. Not sure about him being the most removed, though. Because come on! Spike, all "Big bad" and getting everyone pretty scared, including Buffy, suddenly goes all "I wanna save the world, i've killed two slayers, now i love one, I loved Dru, now i'm willing to kill her, oh, and now i have a soul" I think that's a pretty big change.
And Willow, the loveable nerd, always good at science and computers, helping them out. She becomes obsessed with magic to the extent that she wants to kill the world. Looking back at previous seasons (which i've been doing lately) she has changed so much in personality and actions.
Therefore i don't agree that Xander has changed the most. I think he and Giles have changed the least out of all of them (Granted, changed some, but not as much as others)
This wasn't my intended response, it was meant to be short and sweet, but i expanded a fair bit. Sorry! LOL!
But i do agree with your points, though. They were good.
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I dont think I got my point across very well -- Shell, 09:35:02 07/15/02 Mon [1]
What I was attempting to say was that a lot of the dark and dreary feeling of the whole season is being placed on Xanders shoulders because he was the one who broke the tension, and particularly at the end of the season, he failed to do this. I think this is causing a lot of the backlash.
What I meant about him being the most removed, is concerning the role his character plays in the group. Since the beginning, we have seen Willow, Buffy and Spike explore their emotions, evolve, etc., while Xander has remained pretty much the same. I guess what I am saying is that his is the most sudden change, rather than drastic.
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lol! May just be my way of interpreting things! hehe! -- Rachel, 10:14:32 07/15/02 Mon [1]
Oh, i get you now, and i guess I can see what you mean. Though if it were the case, why are people throwing random insults at Xander rather than asking where the funny is? Guess they are just funny people! lol!
But now i see what you mean, and good point. I will go away and ponder this!
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I still have difficulty understanding the situation -- UHC, 16:48:12 07/15/02 Mon [1]
I know and understand what your talking about here with Xander usually being the icebreaker. He usually can't stand by and just let an uncomfortable situation pass without making a comedic responce, but the problem with that was that this was basically all Xander did was make jokes and fill in comedic spots. He of course had other roles before season 3 but as of Season 4 he became just the joke guy. And this is the role he has handled since then. Now finally they have given Xander a storyline again that requires he does something other than tell jokes. And there are alot of fans who have either begun with season 4-6 or they have just become overwhelmed with the whole Spike in your face promotion campaign. And they have begun to care little for anything other than him. (this isn't the whole audience) But the Willow Tara fans have been pandered to for about 2 seasons. The Spike fans have gotten storyline on top of storyline. Buffy of course being the star of the show is the storyline. Dawn had hers in season 5 but then has been almost forgotten this season. but from season 4 - mid season 6 Xander had next to nothing. The wedding planning which was really really drawn out, and really compared little to the other things going on with Willow and the rest. Especially when you consider just straight screen time. Mid Season 6 people began to wonder if Xander had been killed or something he had so little screen time.
And like you said people have become accustomed to XAnder really not having any affect on the ongoing storylines but rather him just being there to be funny or be made fun of and thats about it. Now that he is intricately woven into the whole B and S and Anya storyline people are a bit unaccustomed to it. And since Spike and Xander are on opposite sides the fans feel the need to pick sides too.
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ooo! Shell, I comletely agree! -- Glory, 18:02:47 07/15/02 Mon [1]
Just wanted to say that, that's all. :)
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A good rant always gets the blood flowing -- Glory, 13:01:53 07/15/02 Mon [1]
Good points, all, Rachel!
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