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Date Posted: 14:17:25 03/02/07 Fri
Author: wanderer
Subject: Actually....
In reply to: Cricket 's message, "If I may" on 12:57:37 03/02/07 Fri

I think you are responding to Chuck's words, not mine. She summarized Pres. Hinckley's comments as: "this war is justified, we have an obligation to support it, those who protest it are on the side of evil." He did not define who those who "try to impede or hedge up the way...." as those who protest the war. Those were her thoughts about his comments.

Also, while he let us all know where he stood in these matters by saying that "needing to be mindful of another overriding responsibility" (beyond renouncing war and proclaiming peace) governed his personal feelings and loyalties, he also made specific comments after that which were not presented as opinion--things such as:

"It is CLEAR from these and other writings that there are TIMES AND CIRCUMSTANCES when nations are JUSTIFIED, IN FACT HAVE AN OBLIGATION, to fight for family, for liberty, AND AGAINST TYRANNY, THREAT, AND OPPRESSION."


This places us in the position of those who long for peace, who teach peace, who work for peace, but who also are citizens of nations and are subject to the laws of our governments. FURTHERMORE, WE ARE A FREEDOM-LOVING PEOPLE, COMMITTED TO THE DEFENSE OF LIBERTY WHEREVER IT IS IN JEOPARDY.

It does not seem to me that there was anything tenuous, wishy-washy or "this is ONLY my opinion"-y, about those remarks. And most pointedly of all, one of his comments in the opening section of his address was that he addressing the question of "Where does the Church stand in all of this?" It does not sound AT ALL to me like this is someone who is up there merely expressing his own opinion!

Yes, I DO have my thoughts about what the things he said mean. But I made every effort to convey NONE of my thoughts in the first post I made on this subject. I only quoted his words -- in context, without phrases removed, spliced together or manipulated to try to make them look like they were saying a certain thing on one side or the other.

I really do believe that if we have an opinion which we hold very strongly, that we can sometimes unintentionally look for ways to try to make words say what we hoped they would say, or look for reasons to dismiss remarks which were contrary to what we had hoped to hear. As for me, I did have some thoughts about the war before this address in General Conference, some of which were different than the ones President Hinckley expressed. But in general, my thoughts and feelings were ones of confusion as I heard strong opinions eloquently expressed on each side of the issue. I was really hoping for clarification, if it was to be had.

To be honest, my expectation was that a neutral position of sorts would be discussed, meaning that the seemingly valid points of each side would be mentioned, and then we would be asked to try to be understanding and kind regarding others' positions. I truly was not looking for a certain opinion or position to be validated or concurred with. I was ONLY listening to hear, in Pres. Hinckley's words, "where the Church stood in all of this."

And I do believe that as I took a step back from my own ideas and carefully sorted through what he said, that I DID hear that. But I can't say that what seemed abundantly clear to me came across the same way to everyone. At the same time, especially when I re-read some of Pres. Hinckley's comments quoted above, I say to myself, "How could what he is saying here NOT be clear?", wondering if it's indeed like that profound line from Simon and Garfunkle says, that 'a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.' (from The Boxer)

Just my thoughts....

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