VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: [1], 2 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 22:47:52 07/18/02 Thu
Author: Indri
Subject: Re: Will SOMEONE explain the Appeal of B/S to me?
In reply to: Majin Gojira 's message, "Re: Will SOMEONE explain the Appeal of B/S to me?" on 09:57:18 07/18/02 Thu

I wrote all that and forgot to mention the appeal of athletic, unihibited superhero/supervillian sex. Silly me.

Also, there can be a strong comedy element bcause they both have fine senses of humour.

I could give a list of reasons why I like other 'ships too---and why I often prefer non-shippy fic anyway---but S/B was what you asked about.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> Re: Will SOMEONE explain the Appeal of B/S to me? -- kalima, 07:56:28 07/20/02 Sat

>3) Like most odd ships, it relies on one thing: "Buffy
>admits her feelings for (insert character name here)"
>not a problem with a long enough buildup - IE:
>Tenhawks "Journeys" and its many sequals (It promised
>to be B/X...it's over 5 sequals latter and it's still
>only building up!)>> There are plenty of stories that build up to it, but if you don't like the 'ship then you probably won't/don't read any of the stories. I've argued the same frustration on the subject of slash of any kind which isn't canon or B/X (which I see not happening based on canon) -S/B however is canon in so far as the relationship goes. It's there. It exists in all its messy, ugly glory. Which is why it appeals to me. I din't make up the 'ship after all because I think JM is really dreamy. I think there are many MANY fic writers who don't gloss over the messy, nasty aspects of the relationship and in fact find those things the most interesting to write about.
>
>So far, the best conclusion I've been able to make is
>that it's source (like that of pretty much every ship
>out there) is projection>> Can't be a projection if it actually exists. A writer can twist characterization to fulfil a fantasy, and I suppose, in a way, that's all fanfic is about, (which is why I resisted writing it for so long. ) But then I came across clever, smart, funny, brilliant writers who swept me up into the magic that is Buffy and Spike bumping uglies - in every sense of the phrase. His love for her which is obsessive but real in a Heathcliff-might-return-to-exact-revenge kind of way. Her love for him which must overcome tremendous social and psychological conflicts. It's freaking classic, for God's sake!

>
>Anyone else have a theory of logical explination?>> Your theory isn't necessarily logical as it implies a bit of projection on your part as well.

I can't stand slash for example because I think its just as ridiculous as Spike knowing how to make Bechamel sauce or being the perfect Dad. And yet there are some mighty fine stories out there that involve slash. I read them. A good story is a good story which is why places like the Better Buffy fanfic list is so great. I can take recomendations for stories I might otherwise have avoided based on my bias. But do I understand slash or the need to pair up any couple who don't seem to ...go together? Hell no.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> Re: Will SOMEONE explain the Appeal of B/S to me? -- Majin Gojira, 09:25:44 07/20/02 Sat

>There are plenty of stories
>that build up to it, but if you don't like the 'ship
>then you probably won't/don't read any of the stories.
> I've argued the same frustration on the subject of
>slash of any kind which isn't canon or B/X (which I
>see not happening based on canon) -S/B however is
>canon in so far as the relationship goes. It's there.
> It exists in all its messy, ugly glory.

Unfortunately, I keep on finding stories that don't show its Messy, Ugly Glory!

Where are such fics! Tell me!

>Which is why
>it appeals to me.

Ditto, people want it, but it's all ugly and painful! It's masochistic! :D

>I din't make up the 'ship after all
>because I think JM is really dreamy. I think there
>are many MANY fic writers who don't gloss over the
>messy, nasty aspects of the relationship and in fact
>find those things the most interesting to write about.

Please! Guide me to them! I want to see B/S in it's evil glory!

>>
>>So far, the best conclusion I've been able to make is
>>that it's source (like that of pretty much every ship
>>out there) is projection>>

>Can't be a projection if
>it actually exists.

I'm just posing a reason as to why people like it so much, it's only a theory.

>A writer can twist
>characterization to fulfil a fantasy, and I suppose,
>in a way, that's all fanfic is about, (which is why I
>resisted writing it for so long. ) But then I came
>across clever, smart, funny, brilliant writers who
>swept me up into the magic that is Buffy and Spike
>bumping uglies - in every sense of the phrase. His
>love for her which is obsessive but real in a
>Heathcliff-might-return-to-exact-revenge kind of way.

Which is why the love cannot last. She realized this and ended the relationship.

>Her love for him which must overcome tremendous social
>and psychological conflicts.

God, a minute ago I had a really good comment for this...but...I lost it. Shit.

>It's freaking classic,
>for God's sake!

Like Beauty and the Beast, or...Anne Daryl and King Kong.

I think the King Kong Comparison works better.

>
>>
>>Anyone else have a theory of logical explination?>>
>Your theory isn't necessarily logical as it implies a
>bit of projection on your part as well.

Caught me! Nice one! :D

>
>I can't stand slash for example because I think its
>just as ridiculous as Spike knowing how to make
>Bechamel sauce or being the perfect Dad.

Yes, I agree, It's just that I keep on seeing those in fics.

>And yet
>there are some mighty fine stories out there that
>involve slash. I read them. A good story is a good
>story which is why places like the Better Buffy fanfic
>list is so great. I can take recomendations for
>stories I might otherwise have avoided based on my
>bias. But do I understand slash or the need to pair
>up any couple who don't seem to ...go together? Hell
>no.

So, in ending...HELP ME FIND FICS OF B/S WHERE IT'S SHOWN AS YOU DESCRIBE IT! Prettymuch UNHEALTHY!


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> Re: Will SOMEONE explain the Appeal of B/S to me? -- Kelso, 16:30:59 07/20/02 Sat

>So, in ending...HELP ME FIND FICS OF B/S WHERE IT'S SHOWN >AS YOU DESCRIBE IT! Prettymuch UNHEALTHY!

Well, I have some possibilities for you. There's a site called Dead shell that bills itself as "a place for those of us that realize that the Spike/Buffy relationship isn't normal, isn't good, and certainly isn't healthy." This site does not sound like my thing at all so I haven't read any of the stories there, but it might be just what you're looking for. http://ficbitch.com/deadshell/


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> Re: Will SOMEONE explain the Appeal of B/S to me? -- Coquette, 19:15:13 07/21/02 Sun

Kalima wrote:
>I can't stand slash for example because I think its
>just as ridiculous as Spike knowing how to make
>Bechamel sauce or being the perfect Dad. And yet
>there are some mighty fine stories out there that
>involve slash. I read them. A good story is a good
>story which is why places like the Better Buffy fanfic
>list is so great. I can take recomendations for
>stories I might otherwise have avoided based on my
>bias. But do I understand slash or the need to pair
>up any couple who don't seem to ...go together? Hell
>no.

It's all about the subtext, babe. (Hee.)

No, actually, I hear you on this. And I write slash. Well, when I'm not getting bogged down in plot, I write slash. Of Ye Good Olde Fanged Four variety, with our boy Will getting hammered into the mattress by Bad Dad Angelus, and I have to say I am of many minds about it.

I know what you're saying about the faintly (or frankly) ridiculous aspect of any non-canon relationships, and slash is probably at the top of the ridico-list, from a sane and sober point of view. There are certainly moments when the oddness of what I'm doing strikes me, and I start to giggle. But you're also right--there are writers who can make me believe the unbelievable, like S/X. (*cough*Te*cough*) Or, if not believe it, at least happily indulge it for a span of time. And certainly it does come down to what floats your boat; slash floats mine, so I am perhaps more patient with it than less perverted souls might be.

There's also the fact that the subtext (god bless it) isn't all in our heads; the writers know full well what they do. It's here, there, and everywhere; BtVS and Angel are mighty gay shows at times. And if they're going to flirt delicately around the edges with pink motorcycle helmets and hound dog gazes and throwing-each-other-up-against-the-wall, I say damn the torpedoes.

Wait--this was a thread about Spuffy, right? I don't know, Majin Gojira. I don't get it either.

Coquette, pervert


[ Edit | View ]


[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.