Re: Two films -- The Movie Board

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Subject: Re: Two films

Author:
Jimmy

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Date Posted: 21:14:59 09/12/07 Wed
Author Host/IP: c-71-197-21-170.hsd1.mi.comcast.net/71.197.21.170
In reply to: Kylopod 's message, "Re: Two films" on 23:19:25 09/11/07 Tue

"You yourself described Ferrell as a consummate professional. Martin fits that description also. It's not that their comic styles are identical (whose are?), but that they fill similar niches in the world of comedy superstardom."

I do not see that at all. Filling similar niches implies (that if they were the same age) they'd be up for the same roles. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!?

I'll give Martin credit for being more cerebral but Ferrel credit for being more effective. When has Martin EVER had the balls to go after something like this? "L.A. Story?" I'm not being rhetorical, I was l7 when I saw that and do recall it being somewhat absurdist but overall lame and I was a fan of Martin's at the time (not just SNL and "Parenthood" but also "My Blue Heaven").

"For me, they are also similar in that I find their styles off-putting even though they are both clearly talented. Ebert once hit the nail on the head when describing Martin:

"There's something stolid about his approach to humor, something deliberately half-paced and mannered that seems designed to be subtly irritating."

Ebert wrote those words in 1983, when reviewing "The Man With Two Brains." He has since caved in, praising Martin to high heaven in a variety of later films, both comedy and drama. I have not been as enthusiastic."

I don't find Ferrell off-putting in the least. Furthermore, his comedic persona is more like Carrey's. When I first saw him shouting like a maniac I pegged it. Then the famous showdown skit on Diet Pills.

The fact is Ferrell, again like Carrey, has ventured off into black comedy/drama and shown he is more than capable. I've never seen Martin do black comedy or work the edge.
"That the movie avoided that temptation is quite an accomplishment, since it already had the conceit about the narrator. It chose to use that conceit to ambush the conventions (the "Little did he know..." part was great, and Hoffman's bit of dialogue on that was hilarious) instead of falling prey to them."

I'm not following and though I appreciate the example I need more. Are you saying that the fact the filmmakers loved Ferrel and his situation so much and used it as a red herring for Thompson's narrative to crush and therefore reinforce how powerless he is was inspiring in some way? Doesn't do much for me.

"Not very often. And when I have, it has invited disaster."

LOL! That's an awful outlook, bro. "Never let the moment define you; define the moment." Kevin Costner, 'Tin Cup'

"Fight Club" is actually a rare example that found a clever new way to explore this theme."

Or took advantage of the angry white male movement of 1994.

"Did you also notice a parallel between Thompson and Gyllenhaal?"

No.

"It must have been understated, because they could have picked actresses who looked similar if they wanted to highlight the alter-ego theme, as Gyllenhaal would represent a younger, prettier, freer version of Thompson."

Hmmm, something like that, for me, requires numerous viewings.

"If the film had been more ambitious, it could have made Thompson's presence felt throughout the entire movie, through her words and through her characters. But considering that Hoffman's character considered the story (at first) a "masterpiece," maybe the movie is more ambitious than we presume. Or it just took a dig at literature professors."

LOL! I forgot Hoffman said that. Does that mean Ferrel and Hoffman are linked as well, then? I just don't see the connection between Gyllenhall and Thompson at this point and if it were somehow true does that tacitly imply an indictment on feminism? If so, I like it.

I gotta run, I'm getting too much shit right now for staying up all night.

"Kabbalah (there are many accepted spellings; it would therefore not be a good spelling bee word, though "Akeelah" pretends that it would be, in one scene) is the body of mystical thought in Judaism. A few hundred years ago, the rabbis banned its study except for scholars over the age of forty, partly in reaction to a disastrous episode involving a Messiah figure who dabbled in Kabbalah but eventually converted to Islam, leading to the creation of a weird new sect that combined the two religions. Later, when Hasidism emerged in the eighteenth century, it was a return to Kabbalah for the Jewish masses, and it was very controversial among the rabbinic establishment.

Nowadays, non-Hasidic yeshivas avoid the study of Kabbalah. Yet if a yeshiva student dares suggest that Kabbalah has its origin in medieval thought and does not, in fact, go back to Moses, he would risk being labeled a heretic. There's no official rule that Orthodox Jews have to believe in Kabbalah (it is not one of Maimonides' thirteen tenets of Judaism, which are usually taken as a good description of Orthodox belief today), but it still maintains a strong influence over Orthodoxy (in theory, if not in practice).

>If this is a true-story I will GLADLY rent
>it tomorrow and cry when she sticks it to the
>fortunate sons and daughters. Otherwise, I just get
>sick of movies that REINFORCE the fact that the
>over-populated Inter-City Public School kids can
>achieve no matter what.

I took it to be a PC feel-good movie, though I suspect that conservatives like Michael Medved praised it as a film that encouraged a hard-work ethic for minorities.

>And Home-Schooling but
>as I'm sure you know, and I hesitate in this day and
>age to assume, their parents will not be able to
>educate them in order to compete in the global
>economy.

Homeschoolers tend toward lower middle class, usually two-parent homes where one of the parents isn't working. The Angela Bassett character would not have been a good candidate for a homeschooling mom, though Akeelah would probably have thrived as a homeschooled child herself.

>And yes, I loved Mr. Myagi when I was a kid and
>his race did not matter...one BIT!!!

Same here, although you've got to admit the broken English was kitschy. Is it possible that a man who lived in the country for several decades would not master English? Sure it is. But if that were the case, he would have trouble communicating with natives. Mr. Miyagi never has any difficulty understanding others, and nobody ever has any difficulty understanding him, despite his pidgin-level grammar. Moreover, he demonstrates throughout the film a mastery of English idiom, yet he seems unable to conjugate a simple verb. This leads him to say things like "You beginner luck" and "Not everything is as simple as seem." This is plainly absurd. Either you know the language or you don't. If you're familiar with the expressions, you'd know how people normally phrase them.

For Japanese immigrants I've met, the thing about English they struggle with the most is the pronunciation. Mr. Miyagi doesn't seem to have any trouble on that front: he never confuses l's with r's, nor does he ever sound incomprehensible in any other way. This makes sense, considering that the actor (Pat Morita) is in fact a native English speaker, born and raised in the United States. His Japanese accent is a put-on, and it would have been a distraction for the film to deal with issues of communication difficulties. So why shouldn't the character speak good English, as most immigrants in real life do? The answer, of course, is that the film is following a long cinematic tradition of having Eastern masters hand out their kernels of wisdom in halted, broken English. The cliche is so pervasive that it even found its way into the "Star Wars" universe, with Yoda's backwards syntax.

Fishburne plays an eloquent English speaker, with perfect diction and not a hint of a "black" accent. I've never seen him in interviews, but from watching his movies I suspect that's what he sounds like in real life. His performance as Ike Turner was as much an impersonation as Morita's pidgin-speaking Japanese master.

>"It also refutes the popular belief that spelling bees
>are exercises in rote memorization. Nunberg espoused
>that belief in one of his essays, and he was wrong."
>
>I DARE You to email him with that very sentiment.

I've thought of emailing Nunberg for one reason or another, but getting him to change his mind on this issue is the last of my interests. Especially since I agree with him on so many other things. When Russell Shaw tried to use spelling bees to prove that homeschoolers learn through "rote recitiation," I had the temptation to contact him. Homeschooling is one subject near and dear to me. But I didn't really care to spend my energy trying to convince one commentator I've never heard of before. I did try to write something on the message board following his column, but it was rejected, probably because it consisted simply of a link to my blog post. I might have tried to post a condensed version of my arguments, but by the time I realized my first post hadn't been accepted, the discussion had devolved into a boring creationism debate.

>Wait, why don't I do it for you...with your
>permission, of course.

Suits me.

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Replies:

Subject	Author	Date
Akeelah	Jimmy	23:15:43 09/12/07 Wed
Re: Akeelah -- Kylopod, 23:00:28 09/15/07 Sat