Re: Questions for/about Ron Livingston -- GPA's Book: The Sealed Portion of the Brother of Jared

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Date Posted: 19:51:08 10/06/06 Fri
Author: MattOKC
Subject: Re: Questions for/about Ron Livingston
In reply to: Messenger 's message, "Re: Questions for/about Ron Livingston" on 08:32:57 10/06/06 Fri

>It's just short for "grandpa". He found out that he
>was named for his mothers boyfriend at the time (yes,
>she was still married) and he found that concept quite
>unsettling. Some people still refer to him as Ron,
>even though he legally has no name. I'm not sure
>exactly how you get your name changed to nothing, but
>he did.

Really? Full-on legally? I wouldn't have expected that, considering the necessary engagement into the legal system of Babylon and the implied consent to allow Babylon to have authority over one's name; I would have expect he had just ditched the name. Did Ron go by the moniker "Brother of Calrk" for a while, or was thast just a rumor by critics at his expense?

>>1. Given Ron's numerous statements in the late
>>70's/early 80's that Zion cannot be established until
>>work among the Indian people develops, how will he
>>seek Zionic conditions in his own community despite
>>his no longer being involved in Indian work?
>
>This is a good question and I'm not sure how to answer
>it. The Book of Mormon makes it quite clear that the
>gentiles are to ASSIST in the building of Zion. Most
>gentiles get all indignant at this statement, because
>they want to be the ones that actually have the
>mission of Zion.
>
>I do know that there is still interaction with many of
>the First Nations, but to what degree and for what
>purpose, I cannot say.

To be honest, I do have some difficulty believing Ron/GPA continues any meaningful relationship with First Nations at this time, given his isolation and disdain for trappings of "modern" culture that would facilitate this (phones, email, cars, etc.). Not to mention the hypervigilance of Indian people to Whites adopting an ersatz "tribal" lifestyle. Does the community practice any Indian-style customs, or is it fairly acknowledged that this is, more or less, a White community?

(PS, I agree 100% with your characterization of the role of Indian and Gentile in Zion)

>>2. Where is Ron's adopted son, Abinadi, now? Are they
>>still in contact with one another?
>
>He is quite a neat guy. He's now married and has a
>son. He does visit quite regularly and everyone still
>regards each other as family.

Glad to hear that! But he hasn't joined the community?

>>4. Does the community still identify itself as an
>>Essene culture? And if so, would it then be correct
>>and appropriate to regard anything written by Essenes
>>in the Dead Sea Scrolls as being equally applicable
>>and descriptive of the Iowa community too?
>
>By and large, yes. We are not locked into being
>identified with the Dead Sea Essenes. Remember, they
>never had Zion. Culturally and religiously, it was a
>very appropriate point of reference. However, we are
>still us, not them. The Lord always has something
>that needs to be done and everyone needs to be able to
>know what there part is and to get out there and do
>it. We don't see our mission as being just an
>extension or continuation of that group.

But why "Essenes," and not "Nephites" or something more significant? Original Essenes are vaguely understood at best, and seem to have been a very conservative group that functioned with harsh discipline that favored purity codes more than compassion. I don't think Ron/GPA intends this to be the public image of his community, but it does indeed play right into the stereotypes his critics suggest.

>Now one quick question for you. Are you the fellow
>that emailed me from Oklahoma about two years ago?

Yes, it's me! You invited me to submit questions, but then I sorta lost my nerve, not sure how to phrase questions in a way that is respectful of Ron's importance in my younger life, yet still direct and bold enough to really, substantively ask what I actually want to know---and not just come off as a "critic" taking "pot shots" just because I don't understand but would like to. I have a nostalgic sense of affection and sentiment for the "old" Ron, but the post-"transformation" Ron doesn't resonate with me, and I'm trying to figure it all out. I don't, for instance, believe that his interpretation of Hopewell-period Adena tablets with stylized birds as an etiology of the Priesthood of the Eternal Christ is accurate, and I'm stunned that people can read his conclusion and go "yep, he's prophetic!" Sorry.

Deep down my *ultimate* questions would be
"how on earth did Ron get so much influence that people would follow him into the wilderness like that?"
And: "How did it come to pass that Ron has adopted the very lifestyle that in his 'Charity' sermons he discloses God warned him would be a temptation of his prideful yearning to be a prophet in the woods?"
And: "The claim to have possessed the Urim and Thummim to translate the sealed portion is sensational and, quite honestly, difficult to believe. Is there any substantiation to Ron's claims?"

The three possibilites I can imagine are:
1) it's absolutely true, and only that tiny community is privy to it;
2) Ron is flat-out lying and knows it, but is willing to mislead an entire community of believers (which would also suggest Ron doesn't truly believe in a judgment before God);
3) Something remarkably spiritual did indeed happen that Ron has misunderstood, such as believing that the words his mind generates are actually revelations from the Sealed Portion using a seer stone as a prop, with absolutely innocent belief on his part but no actual relevant to the U&T/sealed portion.

So there you have it--the questions that truly lay at the root my curiosity about the commnunity. I know they seem oppositional, but they're honestly intended (and it would betray the meaning of charity for me to misrepresent my actual curiosities).

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Replies:

Re: Questions for/about Ron Livingston -- Messenger, 17:54:18 10/08/06 Sun