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Date Posted: 05:19:43 06/10/03 Tue
Author: Grizlas
Subject: re:
In reply to: neonate 's message, "response to 'determinism and the matrix' and 'sidenotes'" on 22:48:07 06/09/03 Mon

Thank you for your interesting reply - much more than I'd hoped for :)

Time in itself is abstract - simply a word that we use to describe the sequence of events. Those entities that have the ability to experience time do not experience it in the same way. An hour to a human might seem like a year to a fly and so on. This doesnt mean that the fly is living in a dream world and that time actually passes much quicker. It just means that time is relative to the entity experiencing it - there is no objective time, only subjective time.

The speed of light however, sets the limit on how fast we can act. Neurons, photons, electrions etc. cannot travel faster than light, and this limits how fast we can percieve the world around us. The fly might experience humans as moving in slowmotion because the fly has a much smaller "brain" and is better wired than we are, yet there is a limit to how much slower anyone can percieve humans since all sentient things, even A.I, are built by matter and as such are subject to the same rules like gravity and the speed of light. So Neo cannot act infinetly faster than anyone else within the Matrix, because his brain/program is limited by the speed of the neurons/electrions that it is built of.

I guess what i'm saying is, there is no such thing as "an illusion" of time in any other sense than it being an illusion for everyone.

You make a good point about body and mind. It's possible that if the illusion was real enough, it would become real. Just like when Morpheus says "your mind makes it real" when Neo complains about real life bruises after their fight in the dojo. Maybe the mind can make the body younger or older, we dont know :)

It is possible that the agents lied to Cypher, granted. But in order for any theorizing to be possible, we have to assume that they didn't. We are basing all our assumptions on statements from the movies, and if anyone of them is lying flat out, then they could all be lying and we cannot trust what anyone says. A theory could be that the matrix was infact a giant toaster and the whole plot of the film is making the perfect toast. This theory would be just as credible as any other because it cannot be falsified if we cannot believe the characters in the film.

Falsification is a very important part of any scientific theory and it simply means that there has to be a possibility to test the theory. Astrology is a good example of a theory that cannot be refuted. Predictions are made so vague that you can account for anything that might happen, and so it cannot be falsified.

Therefore it's my oppinion that we should interpret what the characters say as not being lies. Some dialogue in the film however, can be interpreted in different ways. What the Oracle tells Neo in the first film was interpreted readily as meaning Neo wasn't the One, although as it turned out the oracle only meant that he wasn't the One - yet.

So, unless we have some evidence that the Agents were lying to cypher, there is no reason to believe they did.

I get off work now, so I better wrap this up...I have some questions that I'd like your oppinion on:

The signifigance of the two scenes where Trinity and Neo save one another from death. In the first movie, Trinity brought Neo back to life from outside the matrix, and he then killed agent Smith. In Reloaded, Neo brings Trinity back to life from within the matrix and subsequently stops the sentinels. The musical theme is identical in these two scenes. I'm sure that the Reloaded scene is just as important as the scene in the first movie that turned Neo into the one. I just have no Idea what he's turned into this time.

Then there is the mysterious seraph/oracle dialog in "enter the matrix" as well as the Ghost/oracle and Niobe/oracle scenes. all very mysterious.

looking forward to hearing what you think :)

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