[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement:
Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor
of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users'
privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your
privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket
to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we
also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.
Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
[ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 08:07:41 01/17/04 Sat
Author: Robert
Author Host/IP: host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de / 131.188.93.25
Subject: Wrong again.....
In reply to:
Joe Taylor
's message, "Bush is a true American" on 07:30:41 01/17/04 Sat
citizenship is just a lable, it doesn't say anything about the identity. Someone who immigrates for example may become American, or he may not. Moore is American - Bush however has just adopted some american features, he may pose as American, but basically he isn't.
The question is what's the best for America now. No government, though it's a nice idea, obviously will not work for most Americans, same as everywhere else.
You have to deal with the current situation, with the current American population, and there Clark is the best choice availlable.
There's a major difference between Clark and Clinton. Clark has pretty good moral standards, that's my impression. Clinton didn't have. I never liked him.
BTW over here I vote for Greens, but I wouldn't like to have them as absolute majority. I want them to get about 15%, more wouldn't be beneficial.
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
Replies:
[> [> [> [> [> [>
"Clark has pretty good moral standards" - do you have any evidence of that, except fancy talk? -- Joe Taylor, 08:35:58 01/17/04 Sat (wc03.wlfdle.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com/66.185.84.70)
Granted, it's hard for someone who's never held any elected office to show proof of liberal politics, but still, there are things Clark can do. He says he's pro-choice? He should prove it by tying himself to Planned Parenthood and NARAL, by promising to nominate a prominent pro-choice politician as Secretary of Health (e.g. Dean, who has a pro-choice record as Governor of Vermont), and generally by forcing himself into such a position that if he doesn't fulfill his promise, he's toast (e.g. getting a photo-op of himself holding a picture of a blastula and a caption, "abortion kills this").
Now, as for no government, of course I don't mean no government at all - I only mean no elected government. The police departments, the FBI, the IRS, the lower- and mid-level courts will continue operating; only the legislatures and the elected executives will disappear (at least Scalia might stop bitching about judicial activism...).
As for the label "American," it's meaningless. It's just an incidental set of people. Would you say that I'm not a "true non-white male aged 18 to 31 and a half"? Would you say that about anybody? Was Hitler not a "true human?" Was Gandhi not a "true man with glasses"? Was Roosevelt not a "true person living north of the 35th parallel north and south of the 45th parallel north"?
BTW, what's your email?
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [>
I guess I'm not too bad in estimating people, I've trained it quite a bit.... -- Robert, 10:44:01 01/17/04 Sat (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)
and though I don't very much of Clark, I'm sure he's honest. Most politicians aren't, the current administration is a good example.
The label 'American' isn't meaningless, same thing elsewhere. It's a certain level of everyones identity or maybe say the material you're provided with when growing up or immigrating and living there. It's possible that someone grows up in America and nevertheless is european. Twaim for example was pretty much American, Poe wasn't. Another issue it whether someone represents just a regional part, or whether he's able to represent a nation. Highest level of couse is to represent humanity, but it's only some few people who manage, and this still contains the national etc stuff.
Ghandi was human - Hitler wasn't, he was below the lowest animal. Just to have human shape doesn't mean you're human. That is every kid has the chance to become human, it's not a given thing. It's a quest, and most people fail quite a bit.
Mail address is: rtschwab@web.de - but I rarely check it, you better inform me here about having sent me a mail, else it might take a month or so until I notice. :)
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
Then why do you call a certain set of beliefs "American"? -- Joe Taylor, 19:46:12 01/17/04 Sat (wc03.wlfdle.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com/66.185.84.70)
It seems that Clark's honesty so far stems from his being much less vulnerable to sacking. In the military, he could do all he could to minimize civilian casualties in Serbia and continued till Clinton sacked him. In politics, he has to appease the people, who don't give a flying fuck about non-American civilian casualties.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
I don't call a 'set of belief' American.... :) -- Robert, 11:31:57 01/18/04 Sun (lethe.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.24)
it's rether a 'set of being' - human too isn't a 'set of belief'.
To be honest is basic part of ones character, and the resulting actions are honest because of this base, not because of the circumstances, same as inhonest actions are refused because of this base, even if they would mean profit. Nobody is absolutely honest, but there are people who represent it quite a bit.
According to the abundance of lies, deception and stuff of the current US administration it's absolutely clear that these guys give a damn about honesty - and everyone who justifies it does the very same, even if he isn't aware of if.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
Alright... Why is this attitude "truely American"? -- Joe Taylor, 00:21:01 01/19/04 Mon (wc03.wlfdle.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com/66.185.84.70)
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
What attitude?..... -- Robert, 14:12:04 01/19/04 Mon (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)
Nations have different sets of abilities and stuff, sort of basic mental shape. In border regions it's somewhat mixed, same if for example kids of ambassadors grow up in another county.
The american mode differs quite a bit from the one here, it wasn't easy to get some understanding of it. Switching to it - guess I'm too old to manage - would mean to lose the one I currently have.
Everyone who grows up in America is American, more or less, depending on the special situation of his growing up. But this doesn't mean to be able to represent America, for example because of being dominated by some regional identity.
Additionally the 'set of abilities' is accompanied by a 'set of disabilities'. The term 'true' sort of indicates that such a person has managed to realize the available ability set.
[ Edit | View ]
[ Contact Forum Admin ]
Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.
|
|
