Re: Gentile believers guarding Torah; fulfilment of prophecy -- Mosaic Board

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, [2], 3, 4, 5, 6 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 02:31:56 03/22/06 Wed
Author: Rabbi Stanley
Subject: Re: Gentile believers guarding Torah; fulfilment of prophecy
In reply to: Carol 's message, "Re: Gentile believers guarding Torah; fulfilment of prophecy" on 18:34:53 03/13/06 Mon

Glad to have you Carol, jump in anytime.
Those are very good questions you have. I'll answer them one by one.
A Mosaic Jew is similar to a Messianic Jew. I called myself a Messianic for the last 30 years. But the word "Messianic" has begun to take a new meaning, one that doesn't describe me well. There are Messianics out there now who don't keep Biblically kosher. They don't even keep the Sabbath or the Feasts of G-d. They don't believe in the Salvation of National Israel and some don't think the Temple will be rebuilt. Yet, they call themselves "Messianic Jews". Well, if that's the definition of Messianic, then I'm not a Messianic any longer. The fact is, I am a Messianic but I'm a true Messianic. But since people like to lump others into a category, I want it to be understood that I am a Biblical Jew who follows G-d's Laws and Feasts etc. so I call myself a Mosaic (coming from the name "Moses") Jew.

Your next question about Gentiles. Yes, they can become a part of the "Congregation of Israel". These are Gentiles who have given up their Pagan ways (i.e. Christmas, Easter eating forbidden foods and so on) and have decided to be a part of G-d's covanant with Israel. Those Gentiles who think it's ok to break G-d's Laws and that it's not important to keep Shabbat (Sabbath) will not be a part of this. I've heard Gentiles say "Well, it doesn't matter what day we keep, as long as we keep one of the days of the week, then we are ok. They say the same about many of G-d's Laws and they have a flippant attitude about it. They forget the story of Aaron and his two sons...
(Leviticus 9:24) GOD told Moses and Aaron to keep the embers of the holy fire and use them to ignite all sacrifices from then on.
However, two priests, son's of Aaron, decided that after all, fire was fire, and reasoned that the original ignition of the flame was of no real consequence. So, they made their own fire and went to offer sacrifices. What happened next was a huge surprise to them. Leviticus 10:1-2 "1. Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. 2. So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD." G-d killed them!

That's what the Church is doing now! Offering "Strange fire". G-d is very particular when it comes to the things He has told us to do. Many Christian Churches today are not really aware that they are doing wrong before G-d but the day is coming when He will make it clear to them. Quite possibly through Born Again Jews who keep His Laws.

So I strongly encourage the Gentile Believer to join the Congregation Of Israel and turn away from Paganism. And yes, keep the Feasts! I've heard Pastors tell me "oh those are the feasts of Israel, only the Jews have to keep them". I reply, where in the Bible does it say "the feasts of Israel?� It doesn't say that anywhere. What it does call them, time and time again, is "The Feasts of G-D!� They are G-d's Feasts, not Israel�s. Any Rabbi who says differently is incorrect.

The way you feel Carol isn't uncommon any more. I have people writing me from all over the world that tell me the same thing that you are expressing. I have Churches calling me up asking me to come and speak and teach them how to observe the Feasts. In two weeks I'm going to a Vietnamese Church to show them how to keep Pasach (Passover). They understand that Yeshua (Jesus) observed all the Feasts and so did the Disciples even AFTER the resurrection and they feel the Holy Spirit prompting them to also observe. They are all from Vietnam! I think it's great.

It's an amazing thing that G-d is doing. G-d's people everywhere are hearing G-d's pleas to come back to Torah. All this nonsense going around about Messianics "building up the middle wall of partition" is getting thrown out. Let me tell you about the "middle wall" the Scripture is talking about there... Christian Gentiles think that meant that Jews are now supposed to act like Gentiles and start eating pork (BTW read my latest article "PORK CONSUMPTION LINKED TO BIRD FLU!" at http://birdflu.homestead.com/index.html) but that's not what it meant. It meant that Gentiles can now come in and be a part of His Kingdom right along WITH the Jews (Saved Jews of course). Remember the Gentiles were grafted in, not the Jews. The Church was supposed to become like the Disciples and the First Church. Not to become part of the Pagan World as they have done. The Church has been ignoring His Word for way too long.

I know this is a bit lengthy, but other people need to hear it as well

Blessings,
Rabbi Stanley

>>I hope it is ok if I jump in on this conversation????
>Based on your response to Laura's questions...I have
>some additional questions. What is the definition of
>"Mosaic Jew"? You also talk about Gentiles being a
>part of the Jewish community, how can this be
>achieved? We are blessed to have the internet to make
>connections such as this, but there is a lot of
>information out there, which may or may not be "the
>truth". I would like very much to leave "the church",
>to worship in a synagogue, study Torah, honor the
>Sabbath, and celebrate the feasts. All of which, I
>believe God commanded in the Bible, but was this
>command just given to the Jews? Some Rabbis have
>said, Gentiles should not keep the Sabbath, study
>Torah, or "live as a Jew", that that is a sin. I know
>scripture is "the truth", and I am trying to study but
>sometimes I just don't understand it and need help. I
>live in a small town, there aren't any Rabbis,
>synagogues, Messianic churches, in fact I don't know
>of a "soul" in town who feels the same pull that I
>feel. I have lots of christian friends, but they just
>don't seem to understand where I'm coming from.
>Thanks for any help.
>Carol
>
>Shalom Laura,
>>I appreciate your statements and questions.
>>We here at Mosaic Ministries are Mosaic Jews. We used
>>to call ourselves Messianic Jews but that term has
>>come to include even those who do not keep the Sabbath
>>and the Feasts of G-d. I call them "Feasts of G-d"
>>rather then the "Feasts of Israel" as they were not
>>given by people... but by G-d Almighty Himself. As for
>>the Gentiles who have made the decision to keep Torah
>>and be a part of the Jewish people, they are part of
>>the Congregation of Israel.
>>These Gentiles have chosen to identify with our
>>people. They will enjoy the blessings of our people
>>but also the afflictions.
>>As I've traveled across the world visiting many
>>Messianic Synagogues I have found, as many of you are
>>aware, that the Messianic congregations have more
>>Gentiles in them then Jews. Many of these "Gentiles"
>>will find out that they are indeed Jewish but they
>>just didn't know it yet. Those who are truly Gentile
>>will be just as much a part of us as any Jew. Just as
>>in Biblical days... if a Gentile cam and was part of
>>Israel (keeping the Law etc) they were considered as a
>>Jew themselves. The Mishna even teaches that a Jew was
>>not even to remind them that they were indeed once a
>>Gentile.
>>Concerning the Pagan rituals which are practiced in
>>Churches... there will come a time when G-d requires
>>them. If they truly have a love for G-d, they will
>>abandon their ways and discontinue their practices...
>>otherwise... they will be cut off. I don't believe
>>they will be exactly like their Messianic counterparts
>>in the end days but they will have their place. There
>>are different callings, one for the Jews and another
>>for the Gentiles. Just as there are for males and
>>females. In Yeshua we will be one, yet we will retain
>>different callings.
>>As for the "Lost tribes"... There's no such thing.
>>That is a term fabricated by man. G-d knows the number
>>of hairs on our head, He's never lost a whole Jew let
>>alone an entire tribe.
>>As far as there being uncontaminated Jewish blood (If
>>I understand your question correctly), there doesn't
>>exist a Jew of "pure blood". Because of the many wars
>>throughout history in Israel, we are all mixed to some
>>degree. Even Yeshua Himself had Gentile blood in His
>>lineage yet He was the King of the Jews!
>>We have to love our Gentile Christian counterparts. I
>>sometimes get angry of their pagan ways but I have to
>>check myself and realize that they are moving at their
>>own pace. G-d is trying to guide them and the
>>Messianic movement has helped bring them closer to the
>>truth but it is slow. My dad said something
>>interesting concerning this. He said that today�s
>>Gentile Church is like a ship without a rudder. It
>>keeps going in circles around the bay and can't make
>>its way out to the high seas. The rudder is laying
>>right there on the beach, but they can't see it so
>>they keep going aimlessly. We Messianics are the
>>rudder and we have to attach ourselves to the boat so
>>we can get them where they need to be. They don�t
>>understand the ways of G-d as we do. Like in Paul�s
>>day, we have to reach them and direct them. This may
>>sound boastful, but the Bible shows that it is us who
>>He chose us to deliver the Words of G-d. That has
>>never changed!
>>The times have changed though, I remember when no one
>>even knew the term Messianic. I know Messianic Rabbis
>>today who grew up in church and they did everything
>>the church did... they didn�t know any better. Someone
>>had to show them. We have to be patient with the
>>Gentile church. There are many good, G-d loving people
>>there. They are still our brothers and sisters and
>>should be treated as such.
>>I do appreciate your fervor Laura and I know in my
>>spirit that G-d is with you and is and will use you
>>mightily. You are welcome here anytime.
>>Shalom beHaShem,
>>Rabbi Stanley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I am of the opinion, based on scripture alone, that
>>>gentiles who accept Yeshua of the Gospels and who
>>>guard the Torah and the prophets are the fulfillment
>>>of prophecy. Please see Gen 48:18-19, Isa 56:6-8, and
>>>Romans 11:25-26 for starters. These are not to boast
>>>against the natural branches. There is a phenomenon
>of
>>>late (growing exponentially it seems) of many
>>>"christians" coming out from the church, keeping
>>>Sabbath and the moedim, and rejecting all pagan
>>>connections to worship. Indeed they are saying, "Our
>>>fathers have inherited only falsehood, futility, an
>>>there is no value in them." (Jer 16:19) I do not
>>>however consider lawless chistians who keep Sunday
>and
>>>pagan feasts instead of the appointed days as
>>>engrafted branches based on Matt 7:21-23 and Matt
>>>5:17-19. What is the consensus of this forum? Do you
>>>beleive that there are literal "lost tribes"
>>>uncontaminated with gentile ancestry comin home in
>the
>>>last days, or do you see the "fullness of the
>>>gentiles" as Isreal, based on the scriptures above as
>>>well as others?
>>>(I know this is a hot potato. But I never experienced
>>>resistance this strong when I was a harmless
>>>Christian. A small Sabbath keeping assembly now meets
>>>in our home. My relatives are up in arms.)

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]