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| [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, [10] ] |
| Subject: RIght then | |
Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 10:56:11 11/04/04 Thu In reply to: anon 's message, "Capitalism..." on 04:51:28 11/04/04 Thu You are not arguing for the dismantling of the capitalist system: you are arguing by the permanent farming-out of a useful underclass. See how socialists want to improve the lot of poor exploited Third-Worlders! In any case, I've got some friends in Bangalore who work for British call centres, and they are the best paid people in the city - and therefore in India. Indeed, when one of my friends got a call centre job with BSkyB, she actually had a party! She now has her own little motorbike and her own little flat, and doesn't have to marry some farmer and become a baby factory. As far as I'm concerned, this is a victory for globalisation. And Kevin: it is cold and wet over here. The city was 80% under-water over the weekend, and now the water is not rising from underneath but falling from above. I'm told that it's a nice sunny day in Britain... oy veh. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Capitalism vs Socialism | |
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Author: Paddy (Scotland) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:56:30 11/04/04 Thu I think that free enterprise does help a country's citizens to enrich themselves. It makes them in charge of themselves and their money. If you treat people as though they are responsable they generally act in a responsable manner. British socialism encourages people to delegate their social resonsabilities (such as giving to charity etc...) to the state. "The goverment has to do something about it!" That is why I am a conservative. When I took a Chinese course-mate of mine to hospital because he had caught a serious flu it gave me some pride that he did not need to sign papers/give any insurance details before he got treatment. He received it because the NHS treats people, not just citizens or only those who can afford it. Contrast this with U.S. citizens on Jerry Springer who say they use a cheap encyclopaedia to get medical advice. I see shoes and clothes in shops in the U.K. that cost £60. They are made by very badly paid workers in the third world for twenty pence. Most people in the West do not pause to think about how wierd this is. To this extent I am a sociallist. I think that a balance is required, where buisiness-men are not penalised for working hard and people are not forced to live like dogs on the streets if they lose their job. Finally, anon, (please use your real name or make up a better one) there is no substantial difference in moral standing between American and British corporations. Their aim is to make money, and they do it very well indeed. The Royal Bank of Scotland (the second largest bank in Europe)made the headlines up here because it had made record profits. All people did was moan about it and say "it's WRONG" (morally). Most people ignored the fact that this company contributed one-third of it's pre-tax income to the Scotish government to build schools & hospitals & giant IKEA-furnished parliament buildings that we all need so badly. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: How do we define "riches" | |
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Author: Bruce (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:31:11 11/04/04 Thu We need to be very careful about how we define words such as "riches". More and more we are in a world where quantity is used to define quality or even replace it. As we go faster and faster in an attempt to acquire more "riches" when do people stop to determine what the REALLY want for their lives and for their children or can we afford to allow them time between bread a circuses. Does a hampster wheel sound descriptive? Has anyone thought of the trap that cell phones have become to the younger generation ansd what the long term effects of that will be? In the recent US election and indeed in many of our so called 1st world countries we now see a completely polarized view of what life is and can be all about. The fear of not having enough of "whatever" has supplanted the faith in the collective working together for the benefit of all. Ironically those who most fear are gathering together as evangelical fundamentalist again as a way of finding their "peace". Is their room for balance or is it time merely to say that "those who forget history ........."? " The job of the Progressive Conservative Party is to make good on the word 'Progressive.' - that means to save all that is worth saving from the economy of the past, and supplement it by all that is worthwhile from the new knowledge of today. It means the building back into our economy of one essential to it's success - the confidence it needs and must have, if it is to function properly; and it means providing for one major change in the attitude of the State towards its economy and its human resources - human welfare must be made the primary function of the State and not just one that is incidental or secondary or a byproduct of some system". I am a Progressive Conservative [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Progressive Conservatism | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:08:41 11/04/04 Thu Your views seem to be more Disraelian conservative... "We have forgotten the difference between comfort and civilisation" and all that. Not that I have a problem with this: I heartily approve! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: My views (which no one asked for)... | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:28:19 11/04/04 Thu 1. A society should ensure that each of its citizens has a decent start in life (education, health) so that they can make the most of their talents. 2. What they do with their talents is then up to them, and they should be allowed to profit from them, provided that... 3. They pay their taxes so that everyone can have a decent start in life. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Yep | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:48:30 11/04/04 Thu Good old Ozzy common sense! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: What if their talents are mugging old ladies? :P | |
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Author: Roberdin [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:35:44 11/04/04 Thu [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: an argument could be made for restricting the definition of "talents" to exclude such possibilities... | |
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Author: Ian [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:59:37 11/04/04 Thu [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Talents... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:07:05 11/04/04 Thu No-one in my family has shown any talent for anything except sleeping and eating for 160 years...My brother 'phoned me up at lunchtime today, and opened the conversation with the words, "Ah, it's not too early for you, is it, old boy?" Do you think that we could arrange society so as to maximise the usefulness and recognition of our rare gifts for sloth and gluttony? But anyway, let us follow Hobbes and define liberty as the freedom to do as one pleases, up to the point where that freedom starts to interfere with other people's liberty. Mutual self-restraint, based on mutual self-interest: I don't want to be mugged, so I agree not to excercise my physical ability to mug other people. I don't think that mugging old ladies is much of a philosophical problem in a society whose laws are based on these laudable principles. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Actually... | |
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Author: Roberdin [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:23:17 11/04/04 Thu I tend to sleep in until Lunchtime when possible. My conclusion for this is that I'd rather see the morning begin (ie, at 00:00), than end (at 11:59:59) :-P [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: ..Indeed... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:25:46 11/04/04 Thu You're in good company. The philosopher Descartes boasted that he never got out of bed before mid-day. This was apparently true even when he was living in a disused oven in emulation of Diogenes' barrel. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: "...sleeping and eating for 160 years..." | |
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Author: Ian (Porto Alegre) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:49:28 11/04/04 Thu Now if you had said "eating and sleeping for 160 years" I could have said something witty. Damn. As far as Hobbes and liberty, yes, I think he got it right. "Mutual self-restraint, based on mutual self-interest" is as good a definition of society as I can think of. Giving everyone a decent education should produce a cleverer society, because you get more people sufficiently trained to be capable of coming up with bright ideas, so it is also self-interest on the part of the society as a whole, if we can abstract that far. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: ? | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:52:47 11/04/04 Thu And what would have been the witty comment? And, by the way, you seem to be moving around rather a lot! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: But... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 00:47:34 11/05/04 Fri Having said that, I can't argue with your choice of location... Rio Grande do Sul, Gauchos, churrasco, all that stuff. Top hole. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: moving, sleeping, eating, etc | |
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Author: Ian (southern hemisphere) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 01:38:53 11/05/04 Fri Well, actually I live in Porto Alegre and have done for ages, but I normally identify myself as "Ian (Australia)" to indicate what my perspective on Commonwealth things is. Have you been to Rio Grande do Sul? After eating an enormous churrasco, sleeping for 160 years is quite a reasonable thing to do. This Sunday a good friend of mine will be having a 40th birthday churrasco, so my intestines will have a rough start to the week. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Nah | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:55:42 11/05/04 Fri Never been to Brazil... am attempting to avoid being inhaled by alligators, shot full of poisoned darts, kidnapped by communists etc. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Also... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:56:50 11/05/04 Fri Also, having sweated away like a slave in an attempt to learn Castellano Spanish, I'm damned if I'm learning Portuguese! I'd keep getting confused and start to think that I was speaking Croatian or something... weird-sounding language. On the other hand, I met some extremely pretty Brazilian girls when I was in India... perhaps there's something in it after all... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Well, | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:59:13 11/05/04 Fri On the other hand, I met some extremely pretty Brazilian girls when I was in India... perhaps there's something in it after all... You are in Italy though - bella bella and all that... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |