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| [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, [5], 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ] |
| Subject: It's a problem, isn't it? | |
Author: Ian (Australia) | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 18:54:04 12/04/04 Sat In reply to: Ben.M(UK) 's message, "China+Pakistan" on 18:39:05 12/04/04 Sat Obviously freedom and justice for all is the ultimate goal, but it's a balance-of-power situation where there are some things that are achievable and some things that would come at too high a price. This being the real world, blind eyes must occasionally be turned. We worked with Stalin's Soviet Union to defeat Hitler's Germany, which was perceived as a greater threat. Accepting that we can't do anything to help the Chinese people is perhaps a sad necessity rather than a mortal sin. Pretending that we have no responsibility to help the people of Zimbabwe (because someone might say we are racist or neo-colonialists), or that Australia should sign a non-aggression pact with ASEAN (including Burma) because trade is more important than people: these are mortal sins. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: On a cynical note... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:07:39 12/04/04 Sat Yes, alliances are formed using criteria that will best meet our aims, rather than on idealistic or altruistic principles. Trying to create an orderly society based on consensus is as misguided as the redistribution of wealth is for eliminating poverty. We must learn to admit that humanity is still fundamentally tribal in nature. The law of the jungle prevails to this day, from the school playground, to the UN General Assembly. With regard to Zimbabwe, it is evidently clear that we are not going to waste energy chasing the boar, when we are not hungry. The fact that out kith-and-kin were being slaughtered shows us that political expediency triumphs over principle. On a cynical note, our best hope for the future is that we remain part of the oppressor, rather than become the oppressed. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: "our kith-and-kin were being slaughtered " | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:31:24 12/04/04 Sat By "kith and kin", I assume you mean any member of the human species? Our best hope for the future is to ensure that we are among those who make the rules and that we make rules that do not merely serve our own narrow interests. The best of all possible world's is the one where Leviathan has a conscience. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: well... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:44:50 12/04/04 Sat By Kith and Kin I meant blood relations, as you well know. Rather than trying to draw racist connotations from my statement, I would hope that you recognised my main point was that foreign policy, alliances and wars, are sadly all too often aimed at protecting our interests rather than our friends/relations/ideals/princliples, or indeed, any member of the human species. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I don't actually have any blood relations in Zimbabwe | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:23:09 12/04/04 Sat I was not suggesting racism. I was suggesting that our quiet little lives will have a better chance of staying quiet if we remove sources of violence and injustice, because whoever is affected directly, we are all affected in the long run. Ultimately, promoting development all around the world is the best way of achieving peace and stability at home, and development can only take root where there is liberty and justice. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: ... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:31:25 12/04/04 Sat ... and I agree. My statements are my observations, not my policy. I believe that it is a fundamental nature of human society to have laudable principles that are discarded as soon as they come into conflict with our interests. Unfortunately, this is something that will not be resolved by any rules the you, I, or anyone else can come up with. Changing our endemic approach requires the changing of the tenet of human instinct. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: *sigh* | |
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Author: Ian [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 02:36:11 12/05/04 Sun [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |