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| Subject: You are probably not fascists, but… | |
Author: Steph (U.S.) | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 20:22:12 12/03/04 Fri In reply to: Roberdin 's message, "I'm afraid that you'll find the majority of today's (British) youth stands with me and Owain" on 16:51:03 12/03/04 Fri Some people get very worried about this because strictly speaking fascism is a form of socialism. What Ludwig von Mises called socialism of the German pattern. It differed from orthodox Marxist socialism or orthodox democratic socialism in that it called not for state ownership of the means of production, but rather state control of the means of production. While democratic socialism was an out growth of Marxism that developed in the 1890s when many Marxists realized that in democratic capitalist societies, the working class has no revolutionary potential, in as far as their standard of living tends to increase. Fascism on the other hand is a development of the German welfare state. Modern democratic socialism like Blair’s Labour Party are in fact mildly fascist in as far as they have renounced the goal of state ownership of the means of production and substituted the idea of state regulation and welfare. However, most democratic socialist parties, have maintained the internationalist bent that is a legacy of Marx’s idea of the international working class and are of course democratic. Orthodox fascism will exhibit the following symptoms: revolutionary violence (aimed against real enemies of the fascist state such as labor unionists, democrats and capitalists; against competing forms of socialism e.g. social democrats and communists; and against scapegoats such as jews, gypsies, etc.), extreme nationalism, antipathy to liberal ideas (representative democracy, capitalism, individual rights etc.), state control of the means of production, and a robust welfare state. Now of course not all fascist states or movements have all of these characteristics. Notably most did not carry revolutionary violence to the extreme seen in Nazi Germany. Argentina for example while fascist was not as revolutionary as Germany. The more of the above traits a person or movement has the more fascist it is. That is not to say that the two of you are fascists, in fact, if you are against increases in state power by the current labour government then you are of course less fascist than them. There is nothing wrong with patriotism, pride in your country for its long history of democracy, individual rights, and industrial achievement and a desire to defend it. But people do get leery when they here nationalist and socialist together, now I hope you understand why. B.T.W. As a libertarian, I must ask why in the name of god are you in favor of the welfare state? Cheers, Steph [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |